[Cybele]

Originally posted by BB22
I think the issue is much, much simpler and analyses of property rights shed no light on the situation at all, to be honest.

Freddie was in a vulnerable state and Big Brother was concerned about that and wanted to draw it to David's attention.

On the other hand, Big Brother probably thinks Marcus is big enough and ugly enough to handle the situation himself.

It is as simple as that, from what I can see.

I agree 100%. If Marcus was showing distress over the situation, I think it would have been handled differently by BB.

But I still don't understand people who excuse stealing whether BB is pulling them into the diary room for it or not.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by The_Long_Run

Lets look at some examples shall we? The Eastern Bloc. All private property rights were expunged. The State laws said that people could have use of land to produce goods that were shared. Previous land owners, had no rights over the land. There was no crime, but their land had been taken from them as it was used as a tool of oppression to exert control over the labouring classes.

In Spain, the law allows the taking away of property for the greater social good, without compensation.

English property rights all derive from the Common Law imposed by the Norman Conqerors. Before William the Conqueror arrived, land was held in village communities by the indigenous population.

William the Conqueror gave the land to his Lords. Was it his to give? Everyone who buys property now is handling stolen goods.

As Sophie said of Marcus, "Who is he to....." She does not see herself as subservient to this self appointed Lord of the Manor and so rises up against him to liberate the alcohol for community use. It would only be from him that alcohol would be liberated as he is using it as an entirely different sort of commodity from anyone else.

LOL the lengths some will go to on here are really quite astonishing...

In what way does the big brother house have ANY connection with 'the Common Law imposed by the Norman Conqerors'??

According to your logic then, it is ok for me to go down to tescos now and steal a few loaves of bread, because I plan to give them to the homeless 'for the greater social good'

Utter rubbish

[BB22]

It is fairly plain what went on. Sophie and Charlie wanted alcohol, they had already drunk their own so they decided to steal Marcus' to get more, figuring his reaction would be fairly low key (as it was when Charlie and Kris stole his alcohol earlier in the series). They employed fairly common and easily recognisable methods of self-justification and then went ahead and stole it.

Sophie's reaction was quite interesting, a classic case of picking on the behaviour of the victim to retroactively justify the offence.

[Cybele]

Originally posted by BB22
It is fairly plain what went on. Sophie and Charlie wanted alcohol, they had already drunk their own so they decided to steal Marcus' to get more, figuring his reaction would be fairly low key (as it was when Charlie and Kris stole his alcohol earlier in the series). They employed fairly common and easily recognisable methods of self-justification and then went ahead and stole it.

Sophie's reaction was quite interesting, a classic case of picking on the behaviour of the victim to retroactively justify the offence.

You are getting a +k as soon as I can Karma-tize again.

[The_Long_Run]

Originally posted by Cybele

Do you honestly believe some of the sh*te you write here or is your purpose just to wind people up? Given that you are currently over 20 negative on your kharma, it might be the latter.

Marcus an oppressive housemate? Really? Let me remind you of the definition of oppression:

op·pres·sion
Function: noun
unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power

I have never seen Marcus be cruel or unjust. And he certainly isn't in a position of authority or power in the house. So your statment is nothing but rubbish.

Marcus has cans of Lager and Cider which are rightfully his and trades them with the other housemates for things he likes. Sometimes he also just gives them away. How it is EVER alright to steal something from someone else? I don't care if you are in the big brother house or not. It is STEALING. The people who take them are THIEVES. The only change of rules is that inside the BB house, Marcus has little recourse. If he was in the outside world, he would have avenues of retribution or repayment.

I'm sure if Marcus had taken something from Charlie instead of the other way around, you would be calling for his head. Everything Charlie does is perfect everything anyone else does is flawed. What WILL you do when this series is over?

Wow, you are SO generous with your English lessons.

Clearly Marcus seeks to exercise authority and power. However, that this is not seen as legitimate is demonstrated by Sophie's recent actions.

Marcus was VERY cruel to both Freddie and Bea. He thinks of himself as the moral compass of the whole house, yet sees no wrong in ripping the diary room to pieces, breaking out of jail etc. he assumed he had some moral authority to do both these things. In the outside world the fellow housemates who suffered as a consequence of these actions would have had some recourse, as you put it. He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.

Freddie took the towel that Charlie had put by. No problems, Charlie was silly and over-reactive to that. However, it was the way he felt so he is entitled to express that.

I pride myself on my -ve karma, awarded by disciples of Marcus. They demonstrate the number of times I have shown Marcus to have been in the wrong.

[Shasown]

Originally posted by The_Long_Run


Lets look at some examples shall we? The Eastern Bloc. All private property rights were expunged. The State laws said that people could have use of land to produce goods that were shared. Previous land owners, had no rights over the land. There was no crime, but their land had been taken from them as it was used as a tool of oppression to exert control over the labouring classes.

What a well thought out and reasonably typed example but what a load of cock. The idea of the farming collective was all produce was the property of the state, and was taken back by the state. Incidentally when it was reallocated there were supervisors of the farm units.

Using the same example though each farming unit would receive allocations of tools and grain, if a different farming unit took someone elses allocation without permission they would be punished, that was the purpose of the gulags.

I could continue and rebuff each example you post but you are so full of faeces(being awfully polite) it would be a waste of effort.

Theft is theft is theft, there is no way round it, your hero is a thief accept it and move on.

[The_Long_Run]

Originally posted by VickyJ


LOL the lengths some will go to on here are really quite astonishing...

In what way does the big brother house have ANY connection with 'the Common Law imposed by the Norman Conqerors'??

According to your logic then, it is ok for me to go down to tescos now and steal a few loaves of bread, because I plan to give them to the homeless 'for the greater social good'

Utter rubbish

Thank you for your support.

Common Law imposed by the Norman Conquerors' is NOT the law of the BB house, exactly as I was saying.

However, it would warn you that it IS the law that will apply to you if you go stealing bread from Tescos so I wouldn't recommend it.

[Cybele]

Originally posted by The_Long_Run

Wow, you are SO generous with your English lessons.

Clearly Marcus seeks to exercise authority and power. However, that this is not seen as legitimate is demonstrated by Sophie's recent actions.

Marcus was VERY cruel to both Freddie and Bea. He thinks of himself as the moral compass of the whole house, yet sees no wrong in ripping the diary room to pieces, breaking out of jail etc. he assumed he had some moral authority to do both these things. In the outside world the fellow housemates who suffered as a consequence of these actions would have had some recourse, as you put it. He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.

Freddie took the towel that Charlie had put by. No problems, Charlie was silly and over-reactive to that. However, it was the way he felt so he is entitled to express that.

I pride myself on my -ve karma, awarded by disciples of Marcus. They demonstrate the number of times I have shown Marcus to have been in the wrong.

You are as self delusional as those you defend.

First of all, you need not be sarcastic about me giving you a definition when you have repeatedly done that and worse. Take a look at your history lesson above. You cannot truthfully justify use of the word based on the TRUE definition of the word. However, I see that you continue to use your own lexicon when it suits you.

Marcus was VERY cruel to Freddie and Bea? Really? You are clearly not watching the show I have been watching this summer. Either that or you are taking too much/too little of your medication. You might want to cut out caffeine too.

Lastly, I can only speak for myself, but I do not use karma as a way of agreeing or disagreeing with someone. As a rational adult, I can respect a well thought out and worded argument while not necessarily agreeing with it. I reward those who do so with karma (whether I agree with them or not). I remove karma from those I feel are trolls who talk rubbish just to wind people up. Believe it or not, I appreciate many of the posters here even if they support a different housemate. That is because I appreciate people who realize that just because it is the internet and we are not face-to-face, you don't have to be a complete and total ar$e.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by The_Long_Run

Thank you for your support.

Common Law imposed by the Norman Conquerors' is NOT the law of the BB house, exactly as I was saying.

However, it would warn you that it IS the law that will apply to you if you go stealing bread from Tescos so I wouldn't recommend it.

Common Law imposed by the Norman Conquerors' is NOT the law of the BB house, you are correct, but stealing is still stealing


Nice try

[Shasown]

So its okay for a housemate to take some of another housemates allocation of food? Maybe they should all do that on Sophie, so that she fits her clothes upon her coming out in 5th place.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by Shasown
So its okay for a housemate to take some of another housemates allocation of food? Maybe they should all do that on Sophie, so that she fits her clothes upon her coming out in 5th place.

Nooo...its only ok for HMs that 'the_long_run' likes, to steal from people they dislike. Not the other way round...god you are so slow sometimes

[hennessy]

Cybele great post +k to you

[vladicus]

taking someones things without asking is still wrong no matter where you are