[Niall]

Originally Posted by simonsays

i dont get why people dont agree with gay marriage if they dont have a problem with gay people

Same I mean you can't really say you accept gay people but then not let them have equal rights with straight people. It contradicts what he said.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Me!

Same I mean you can't really say you accept gay people but then not let them have equal rights with straight people. It contradicts what he said.

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.

I

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by angus58

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.
I

This is a very good point...

[_Seth]

Originally Posted by 30stone

This.


As for philip. a ****ing idiot for not agreeing with gay marrige thats harsh isnt it?

Originally Posted by Fish_Fingers

Ok, so you support the whole "agree-with-me-or-you're-scum" argument?

I already said - if I wanted to get married to a dude and it was up to him, he'd deny us marriage. I don't think it's harsh in the least to think of him as scum for that.

[Fish_Fingers]

Originally Posted by Phlip

I already said - if I wanted to get married to a dude and it was up to him, he'd deny us marriage. I don't think it's harsh in the least to think of him as scum for that.

You said "To me, anyone who doesn't support gay marriage is a ****ing idiot."

That's a MASSIVE generalisation. And you're showing that you don't have the capability to listen to reason, and that you have no respect for other people's opinions.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by angus58

If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.

I

Are you effing serious? Thats EXACTLY what most religious folk do. Selective reading. Truth is you can pick bits out of the bible to justify or condemn anything.

And where does it say in the bible; thou shall molest the choir boys?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Are you effing serious? Thats EXACTLY what most religious folk do. Selective reading. Truth is you can pick bits out of the bible to justify or condemn anything.

And where does it say in the bible; thou shall molest the choir boys?

Seems you missed my point completely. So I will explain what I mean in detail, albeit this is only my personal opinion. Every single religion has its own belief system and "scriptures". Therefore it is every individual's personal choice to select that religion (or denomination thereof) that jives with their own beliefs, inclinations, moral compass whatever. Therefore a gay person has the same freedom of choice to believe or not believe in whatever a particular religion dictates.

What you don't do is CHOOSE to follow a faith or religion which is quite clearly AGAINST your particular path in life and then bleat and whinge about how it's discriminatory. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone women priests, and just as many that don't. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone gay marriage and just as many that don't. It's not like there's not a custom made religion for everybody since there are reportedly over 38000 denominations that ALL consider themselves Christian, so basically the cherry picking has already been done.

By the way I am not religious at all which is why I didn't get married in a Church, nor did I have my children christened since it would have been meaningless and hypocritical. But just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't respect the right of others to believe what the hell they like.

As regards the molestation of choir boys, I think you'll find that's a given in the Catholic faith in which I was brought up till the age of 16 when I decided I could not believe in the virgin birth or some man in a frock "forgiving" my sins just so long as I spouted a hail mary or two. Like the legal system, the Law is nothing to do with justice, and Religion is often nothing to do with morality.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by angus58

Seems you missed my point completely. So I will explain what I mean in detail, albeit this is only my personal opinion. Every single religion has its own belief system and "scriptures". Therefore it is every individual's personal choice to select that religion (or denomination thereof) that jives with their own beliefs, inclinations, moral compass whatever. Therefore a gay person has the same freedom of choice to believe or not believe in whatever a particular religion dictates.

What you don't do is CHOOSE to follow a faith or religion which is quite clearly AGAINST your particular path in life and then bleat and whinge about how it's discriminatory. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone women priests, and just as many that don't. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone gay marriage and just as many that don't. It's not like there's not a custom made religion for everybody since there are reportedly over 38000 denominations that ALL consider themselves Christian, so basically the cherry picking has already been done.

By the way I am not religious at all which is why I didn't get married in a Church, nor did I have my children christened since it would have been meaningless and hypocritical. But just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't respect the right of others to believe what the hell they like.

As regards the molestation of choir boys, I think you'll find that's a given in the Catholic faith in which I was brought up till the age of 16 when I decided I could not believe in the virgin birth or some man in a frock "forgiving" my sins just so long as I spouted a hail mary or two. Like the legal system, the Law is nothing to do with justice, and Religion is often nothing to do with morality.

Ah but what if you were brought up in that faith, like I have been??

This is where it gets tricky.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by angus58

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.

I never said anything about homophobia. All I'm saying is that (even if it does go against his church) I don't really think you can say you accept gay people, and then not allow them equal rights with straight people.

And, I know you can't cherry pick pieces of your religion. I'm Catholic, and I feel that because I'm gay my religion conflicts with who I am -- I feel that because the Catholic church has such a backwards view towards not only homosexuality, but contraception too, that I cannot be confirmed. Don't get me wrong though, those are the parts of my religion I dislike, I love being Catholic lol

But if I were to go to church for Christmas/Easter then I would go to a Catholic church though.