[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Deanjam

His scripture says homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God, I didn't say he said it. Indeed, if he goes off the bible scripture then he has no reason to oppose same sex marriage as there is nothing in there that opposes it.

My problem is that he holds to a homophobic belief - that gay people are not entitled to the same right of marriage as straight people - and yet claims to have no problem with gays. That is hypocrital. He's entitled to not believe gays should marry all he wants, just don't pretend this comes from anywhere but homophobia.

And the New Testament says that God sent Jesus to die for our sins so our sins would be forgiven. Basically, because the Old Testament made so many things sins, they had to write a new scripture that absolved people from them.

Its may not be from personal homophobia, its from religious dogma, there are other groups within society who are also not allowed to marry, for example certain groups of relatives while being able to marry legally in a civil ceremony cant marry within certain religions, some religions believe you marry for life therefore divorcees cant remarry.

Whilst its true he may hold those beliefs personally, he may also hold the belief that same sex marriages should be allowed, there are priests and minsiters etc who hold such beliefs privately but cant express them publicly. He has at the moment hid his own beliefs behind the "not allowed in scriptures argument"

[ElProximo]

David is a weirdo cult member but having watched this again I don't see him avoiding anything or being difficult,
and,
was about as straight-forward and honest about his understanding as he could communicate.

Philosophically speaking - there is no 'contradiction' between 'God loves everyone' and 'Some unions are not holy' or 'some rules apply'. (put aside if you accept the religious teaching yourself but as they practice it there is no logical problem).

Sociology PoV - the vast majority of human beings of thousands of different cultures over thousands of centuries,
crossing continents,
across time,
around the world,
For the vast majority of humans who ever lived and live today consider marriage to be between one man and one woman.
Almost NONE of them ever considered '2 men' or '2 women' to be a valid or celebrated or even acceptable situation.
and,
It might be safe to say that in most cultures, throughout history that was even considered perverted, retarded, shameful, silly or just a little weird.
It is astonishingly short-sighted and narrow-minded to actually believe that a very recent 'aberration' of some people in some western modern cultures believing that it is completely acceptable should be a 'given',
and,
acting as if they are 'surprised' or pretending to be 'outraged' that their very specific and peculiar social experiment is not a 'given' for all who know better.

But back to cult member David - even he knows he was picked to make a spectacle of himself and be the fool for Christianity,
yet,
IN this case he was very honest, compassionate, was not 'hypocritical', there wasn't a 'contradiction' but he also openly confessed to difficulties and his best understanding.

The judgmental and self-righteous attitude of some of the critics in here is really something to behold.

[Deanjam]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Its may not be from personal homophobia, its from religious dogma, there are other groups within society who are also not allowed to marry, for example certain groups of relatives while being able to marry legally in a civil ceremony cant marry within certain religions, some religions believe you marry for life therefore divorcees cant remarry.

Whilst its true he may hold those beliefs personally, he may also hold the belief that same sex marriages should be allowed, there are priests and minsiters etc who hold such beliefs privately but cant express them publicly. He has at the moment hid his own beliefs behind the "not allowed in scriptures argument"

I suppose I can't agree with the idea of following a set of beliefs you don't entirely believe in. Any notion of faith or spirituality I have (and I admit it ain't much) has been reached by measuring the religious and spiritual beliefs I have been exposed to against what I feel to be right and wrong, reaching a conclusion of my own, seperate from any orthodoxy. I personally can't follow any religion that promotes the exclusion of any part of society and I can't agree with anyone that supports those beliefs either (even if inwardly they disagree with them).

My issue with Dave hiding his true feeling towards same sex marriage behind scripture is that as a preacher, he most literally ought to practice what he preaches.

I don't mean any disrepect to people's right to believe what they wish, even though I disagree with their interpretation.

Peace and love y'all.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Deanjam

My issue with Dave hiding his true feeling towards same sex marriage behind scripture is that as a preacher, he most literally ought to practice what he preaches.

I don't mean any disrepect to people's right to believe what they wish, even though I disagree with their interpretation.

Peace and love y'all.

Then surely following the established party line (the general religious concensus) is in fact practicing what he preaches and as such is not hypocrisy, if his church says no to same sex marriage then as a minister of that church he has also to say no to same sex marriage otherwise it makes his ministerings hypocritical.

Whilst I can understand his reasoning and his explanation I cant speak for his own personal views on the subject.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Deanjam

My issue with Dave hiding his true feeling towards same sex marriage behind scripture is that as a preacher, he most literally ought to practice what he preaches.

Right. He does practice what he preaches. He believes the Bible is God's word and it doesn't allow for same-sex marriages and so he practices accordingly.

I believe my workplace does not allow smoking cigarettes on the property. It doesn't really bother me,
but,
because I do believe that is their rules I don't allow or condone or help others smoke on the property.
Personally, it doesn't really bother me.
Do you see this?
There is nothing 'hypocritical' or 'inconsistent' going on here.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

But it is a bit of a lie, as if his god loved everyone equal, wouldn't they have the same rights in Dave's church?

It is not "Dave's church", it is the Christian faith where the general consensus is that the scriptures frown upon homosexual unions, and the specific demonination of that faith that determines the specifics. Dave is entitled to his religious beliefs, right or wrong, just as other faiths are entitled to theirs (some of which are extremely bizarre and definitely would be considered "unchristian").

I'm sure that if a gay couple wish to get married in the Christian faith, there are plenty of ministers out there who will oblige. Dave is just one minister in one denomination of a faith. By the way I'm NOT a Dave fan - just a believer in freedom of choice, HIS.

Incidentally, the vast majority of people who get married in church couldn't give a toss about the religious aspect of the ceremony, so that argument does NOT fly.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Right. He does practice what he preaches. He believes the Bible is God's word and it doesn't allow for same-sex marriages and so he practices accordingly.

I believe my workplace does not allow smoking cigarettes on the property. It doesn't really bother me,
but,
because I do believe that is their rules I don't allow or condone or help others smoke on the property.
Personally, it doesn't really bother me.
Do you see this?
There is nothing 'hypocritical' or 'inconsistent' going on here.

THIS.

BUT you will always get people who think the rules don't apply to them!

[Zippy]

Monk? Thought he was a wizard? I guess he'll claim to be anything in his desperation to seem wacky and interesting.

Small minded and prejudiced. Added to his long list of faults.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Deanjam

I suppose I can't agree with the idea of following a set of beliefs you don't entirely believe in. Any notion of faith or spirituality I have (and I admit it ain't much) has been reached by measuring the religious and spiritual beliefs I have been exposed to against what I feel to be right and wrong, reaching a conclusion of my own, seperate from any orthodoxy. I personally can't follow any religion that promotes the exclusion of any part of society and I can't agree with anyone that supports those beliefs either (even if inwardly they disagree with them).

My issue with Dave hiding his true feeling towards same sex marriage behind scripture is that as a preacher, he most literally ought to practice what he preaches.

I don't mean any disrepect to people's right to believe what they wish, even though I disagree with their interpretation.


Peace and love y'all.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to where in the Bible gay marriage is condoned. Or do you expect others to compromise THEIR principles and faith to accommodate the wishes of others who, in all probability, do not subscribe to David's specific denomination of the christian faith? I may not like the man, but the one thing he doesn't appear to be is a hypocrite.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Never happened.



I will watch it again but I thought he said something like " It (gays) doesn't bother him much "
but,
I should watch it again.

It will help if you know that David is not really a monk and to the best of my knowledge is not a properly ordained minister who can do state-recognized marriages,
but,
more importantly, you should know that the vast majority of Christians, Christian scholars, Christian clergy would consider David to be a cult member of a bizarre pseudo-christian fringe group,
and,
that David believes in a lot of things you won't find in a Bible, Church doctrine or really anywhere else.

David accepts things that would be considered heresy by not only most Christians but most NON-Christians who would think it bizarre and inexplicable.

In fact you heard just a 'minor problem' compared to a number of bizarre, inconsistent, aberrant things that David has and might say.

Sorry when i said "he" i meant dave claimed god then yes as you say said he personally thought it was alright.

I think we are in agreement actually about one thing, he is a fake. I actually do respect peoples faith but when an ex heavy drug user claims to have found god and is getting spiritual by getting drunk and "drunk for weeks with the spirit of the lord" he's just a bull**** merchant.

I don't want to get into a theological argument over such a person lol but i take your points on board about christians view of him and his claimed belief.