[Jamietwo]

I think the British in general are fairly friendly emotional people who are on the side of the underdog. If you think about some of the BB winners like Bez or Nadia for eg. One of the problems I percieve it that politics in the west have become little more than administrating capitalist excesses....the banks, economy etc. USA seems to be in the lead with this trend, closely followed by UK , while countries like Greece are still struggling to fight it, but they will be broken in like we have in time. This goes back to the Thatcher/Reagan years and as Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society", the rich poor divide and crime go hand in hand and immigration suits greedy entrepenures with cheap labour, while the working classes have to deal with the social problems. You don't find large immigrant communities in green belt Surrey for eg. It's a horrible mess. You may find a sense of freedom, civilsation and culture in meditteranean countries still, for a while. But no amount of heart felt people power can reverse the trend of capitalism. Islamic exremism/terrorism in part is a reaction to this trend as more and more pressure is put on those nations that are religious non-secular...Personally I prefer a secular society where religion is seperate from politics, but what we have is money led politics , ie of little philosophical or social importance, and it's in these areas we are suffering the most. I don't think there is anything we can do to reverse this trend, I believe it is going to get much much worse before there is any hope at all of a change in direction...we will probaly see a bigger divide in police/military v's people and at it's core is capitalism.

[Niamh.]

This argument should probably be moved to serious debates or something!

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This argument should probably be moved to serious debates or something!

yes into the all immigrants out and support your local BNP dustbin where it belongs. thats what happens when people try to stir up frenzies against immigrants and bomb all the mothers etc.

[Niamh.]

I won't even dignify your post with a reply El Proximo

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

here you go small snippet.

At roughly 7pm (GMT) on Wednesday 24th May 1999, NATO forces in the Mediterranean and Europe launched a sustained bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets in retaliation for the Yugoslavian refusal to abide by agreements made the previous year over Kosovo and to stop repression by military force of the Kosovo people, which had already caused thousands of casualties RAF Harriers of No.1 Squadron and Tristar tankers operating from Italian airfields took part in the campaign,

Yes I know they did, I was painting targets at the time. You will notice the words I have highlighted in your C&P - "bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets"

The harrier was the GR7, it carries max payload of 8000 lbs that would also include its ECM pods, Fuel tanks for the trips, actual bombs carried would have been two x 500lbs or a single centre line 1000lb. Hardly enough for carpet bombing.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yes I know they did, I was painting targets at the time. You will notice the words I have highlighted in your C&P - "bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets"

The harrier was the GR7, it carries max payload of 8000 lbs that would also include its ECM pods, Fuel tanks for the trips, actual bombs carried would have been two x 500lbs or a single centre line 1000lb. Hardly enough for carpet bombing.

try googling landmineaction dot org resources, it gives you the ingo you need there to get up to speed sonny. links dont seem to work here.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

try googling landmineaction dot org resources, it gives you the ingo you need there to get up to speed sonny. links dont seem to work here.

PMSL I dont need to google anything, and I am probably a little older than you.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

PMSL I dont need to google anything, and I am probably a little older than you.

i am sure you dont, never let the truth get in the way of a good fairytale, seems to be your motto.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I won't even dignify your post with a reply El Proximo

Speaking English was all the dignifying I could ask for.

[BB_Eye]

I think part of the reason the UK is more politically correct and multicultural than the rest of Europe is because our indigenous culture and history is so dull. Britain was always better known for its innovations in the natural sciences than the arts, where the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians outclass us to the point of being embarrassing.

Part of the problem is that nationalism and patriotism as we understand it today originated in the 19th century... a time when folk art and nationalist music of Wagner, Chopin and Tchaikovsky was celebrated. Obviously Germans are not so proud of their country (despite their rich heritage) because of the Third Reich, but it is easy to understand why they had so much to be proud of before all of that.

All that Britain represented in the 19th century was the chest-beating pomp of Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria and the British Empire. We even had to make up our own folk stories like the legend of King Arthur, because our medieval literary heritage was so barren. Britain suffered a similar predicament to many other anglophone countries. Its traditions lie in the valuing enterprise over creativity and pragmatism over idealism. As a result, Britain is culturally impoverished and doomed to forever suffer an inferiority complex towards its neighbours.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I think part of the reason the UK is more politically correct and multicultural than the rest of Europe is because our indigenous culture and history is so dull. Britain was always better known for its innovations in the natural sciences than the arts, where the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians outclass us to the point of being embarrassing.

Part of the problem is that nationalism and patriotism as we understand it today originated in the 19th century... a time when folk art and nationalist music of Wagner, Chopin and Tchaikovsky was celebrated. Obviously Germans are not so proud of their country (despite their rich heritage) because of the Third Reich, but it is easy to understand why they had so much to be proud of before all of that.

All that Britain represented in the 19th century was the chest-beating pomp of Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria and the British Empire. We even had to make up our own folk stories like the legend of King Arthur, because our medieval literary heritage was so barren. Britain suffered a similar predicament to many other anglophone countries. Its traditions lie in the valuing enterprise over creativity and pragmatism over idealism. As a result, Britain is culturally impoverished and doomed to forever suffer an inferiority complex towards its neighbours.

I've seldom read such tosh - Britain has a rich and magnificent history and has contributed greatly to the world in terms of literature, art, engineering, technology, exploration, science, medicine, invention etc etc.

We are such a fractured society that there is no national cohesion or common purpose any more, and I doubt we will ever again see the kind of unity and love of country that helped us stand alone for two years during WW2.

As a Brit, far from suffering from an inferiority complex, I am extremely proud of our heritage and contribution to the world, and grateful to the servicemen who died in order to keep this country safe from invasion and occupation.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by angus58

I've seldom read such tosh - Britain has a rich and magnificent history and has contributed greatly to the world in terms of literature, art, engineering, technology, exploration, science, medicine, invention etc etc.

Britain's achievements in engineering, technology, science and medicine are redundant for this argument as I already mentioned, Britain being traditionally empiricist, has excelled in the natural sciences (including business and economics), had you read my post properly instead of leaping for the nearest available platitude.

I am not downplaying Britain's cultural output when we speak about authors and playwrights such as Shakespeare, Marlowe, Chaucher, Milton, Blake, et al. It's just that Britain has been relatively bereft of contributions to painting, sculpture, architecture and music compared to its continental neighbours and it's not as if lack of wealth was ever an excuse. Britain has historically preferred to focus its resources on the military, empire and enterprise than on patronising the arts.

It really says something that the reputedly 'patriotic' political right, the very people who appoint themselves as Britain's cultural guardians regard British writers and intellectuals as an elitist literati and have historically been philistines and champions of censorship.

But then it is only part of a bigger picture. Our fragmented identity is deep rooted. The British Isles' medieval history consists of one occupation after another.

We are such a fractured society that there is no national cohesion or common purpose any more, and I doubt we will ever again see the kind of unity and love of country that helped us stand alone for two years during WW2.

As a Brit, far from suffering from an inferiority complex, I am extremely proud of our heritage and contribution to the world, and grateful to the servicemen who died in order to keep this country safe from invasion and occupation.

Way to simplify/misrepresent my argument. Once again, I am not saying Britain was in short supply of scientists, engineers and military personell. Only that many of our more quaint traditions such as morris dancing, Last Night of the Proms and British food invite sneering and ridicule from other countries.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Way to simplify/misrepresent my argument. Once again, I am not saying Britain was in short supply of scientists, engineers and military personell. Only that many of our more quaint traditions such as morris dancing, Last Night of the Proms and British food invite sneering and ridicule from other countries.

Maybe not everyone is ridiculing us as you say:
quote: In the context of classical music festivals, Jiří Bělohlávek has described The Proms as "the world's largest and most democratic musical festival"

The playing of predominantly British music on the Last Night is a celebration of Britain and ***** any Jonny Foreigner who wants to ridicule it.
Quote: This sequence traditionally begins with Edward Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 (Land of Hope and Glory), and continues with Sir Henry Wood's Fantasia on British Sea Songs, which culminates in Thomas Arne’s Rule, Britannia!. The concert concludes with Hubert Parry's Jerusalem (a setting of a poem by William Blake), and the British national anthem.

I repeat..if people want to take the piss out of that then *****'em.

Quote: Morris Dancing is commonly thought of as a uniquely English activity, although there are around 150 morris sides (or teams) in the United States. British expatriates form a larger part of the morris tradition in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and Hong Kong. There are isolated groups in other countries, for example those in Utrecht, Netherlands, the Arctic Morris Group of Helsinki[1] and Stockholm[2], as well as in Cyprus and Alsace, France.
To be honest....i think MD sucks.

And lets take a close look at British food....the most popular food in Britain by all accounts is an Indian.
But i would rather that or Bangers & Mash, to Sauerkraut(?) or Frogs Legs.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Maybe not everyone is ridiculing us as you say:
quote: In the context of classical music festivals, Jiří Bělohlávek has described The Proms as "the world's largest and most democratic musical festival"

It's a great festival, but the Last Night seems like such a meaningless ritual.

The playing of predominantly British music on the Last Night is a celebration of Britain and ***** any Jonny Foreigner who wants to ridicule it.
Quote: This sequence traditionally begins with Edward Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 (Land of Hope and Glory), and continues with Sir Henry Wood's Fantasia on British Sea Songs, which culminates in Thomas Arne’s Rule, Britannia!. The concert concludes with Hubert Parry's Jerusalem (a setting of a poem by William Blake), and the British national anthem.

I repeat..if people want to take the piss out of that then *****'em.

To each their own

Quote: Morris Dancing is commonly thought of as a uniquely English activity, although there are around 150 morris sides (or teams) in the United States. British expatriates form a larger part of the morris tradition in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and Hong Kong. There are isolated groups in other countries, for example those in Utrecht, Netherlands, the Arctic Morris Group of Helsinki[1] and Stockholm[2], as well as in Cyprus and Alsace, France.
To be honest....i think MD sucks.

That's interesting, but it also leads me to think it's a shame we get recognised as a British peculiarity if it's an international phenomenon. It makes us seem less unique. It definitely debunks a few myths though.

And lets take a close look at British food....the most popular food in Britain by all accounts is an Indian.
But i would rather that or Bangers & Mash, to Sauerkraut(?) or Frogs Legs.

Well the Tikka Masala originated in Britain at least. Shame I can't stand the stuff... give me a Madras any day. Sneering aside, you can't go wrong with toad in the hole.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I think part of the reason the UK is more politically correct and multicultural than the rest of Europe is because our indigenous culture and history is so dull. Britain was always better known for its innovations in the natural sciences than the arts, where the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians outclass us to the point of being embarrassing.

Part of the problem is that nationalism and patriotism as we understand it today originated in the 19th century... a time when folk art and nationalist music of Wagner, Chopin and Tchaikovsky was celebrated. Obviously Germans are not so proud of their country (despite their rich heritage) because of the Third Reich, but it is easy to understand why they had so much to be proud of before all of that.

All that Britain represented in the 19th century was the chest-beating pomp of Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria and the British Empire. We even had to make up our own folk stories like the legend of King Arthur, because our medieval literary heritage was so barren. Britain suffered a similar predicament to many other anglophone countries. Its traditions lie in the valuing enterprise over creativity and pragmatism over idealism. As a result, Britain is culturally impoverished and doomed to forever suffer an inferiority complex towards its neighbours.

Maybe our indigenous culture would of come to the fore if these islands weren't invaded by the culturally superiour and artistically minded Italians, Germans and Franks????

[shaz20]

Can I ask why this is posted in a BB forum? Surely there are political forums in which you can discuss this, I dont think the Big brother tv programme can address your issues.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by shaz20

Can I ask why this is posted in a BB forum? Surely there are political forums in which you can discuss this, I dont think the Big brother tv programme can address your issues.

Precisely what I queried in my first post on this thread - where are the mods? They should have moved this to Serious Debates by now.

[brian3]

Britain is one of the more open minded parts in the world.

[iRyan]

IDK about Britian but I think certain states here in America are the most prejudice places in the world.

States like West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, etc are just full of ignorant hicks.