[Livia]

I can't immediately assume that the person carrying out a crime like this is a product of bad parenting. Sometimes people have the best start in life and turn out to be scumbags. Sometimes people have appalling childhoods and turn into model citizens. There are, I know, lots of information to take into account when something like this happens. I'm not justifying some of the knee-jerk comments ,I made one myself, but I just cannot condone the woolly-minded liberalism that asks us to act in accordance with some higher moral thinking that dictates we must treat a crimal with the sympathy and understanding that the justice system does not seem to extend, in many cases, to the victim.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Ew at people sticking up for him
What a vile trait

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Omah

I don't share your, quite frankly, unsettling naivety - I have no doubt that you are capable of "hugging rapists and murderers" .....

I'd rather be considered naive then disturbingly bloodthirsty. Like I said before how a person treats their lessers says a lot about them.

This is NOT America (or even the USA) ..... so your point does not apply .....

Yes it does, you just don't have a counter for it so you're doing the equivelant of sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!'

America's one of the few countries that's quite comparable to us in a lot of ways that still deals capital punishment so if it costs them tons of money to execute someone because of appeals, court procedures, Human Rights checks ETC then it would probably be a similar case in the UK if they brought back the death penalty. It's a fair comparison, you're just trying to void it because it destroys your little 'Killing people is financially sound' argument. Why don't you try another way to justify your bloodlust hmm?

Ah, the old Christian Victorian "reformer" argument ..... it never worked and it never will - prisons have always been "schools" for villains, nowadays they're "colleges" for religious fundamentalists, too .....

I'll do some research on the cost of the criminal rehabilitation system in England and establish the actual success/failure rates ..... I have no doubt that the results will be interesting .....

Okay then, what do you propose? Based on America, executions tend to cost more then life terms so what would you do? Bin all rehabilitation efforts just because it doesn't always work? Just let potential re-offenders rot in prison until they are released and free to do it all again? Like I've made a point of saying, all in all a prison sentence is cheaper then an execution so why would you not try to rehabilitate criminals for the sake of the public when they are released?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

Ew at people sticking up for him
What a vile trait

Reading Comprehension MM&I, I'd advise you practice it a bit more.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can't immediately assume that the person carrying out a crime like this is a product of bad parenting. Sometimes people have the best start in life and turn out to be scumbags. Sometimes people have appalling childhoods and turn into model citizens. There are, I know, lots of information to take into account when something like this happens. I'm not justifying some of the knee-jerk comments ,I made one myself, but I just cannot condone the woolly-minded liberalism that asks us to act in accordance with some higher moral thinking that dictates we must treat a crimal with the sympathy and understanding that the justice system does not seem to extend, in many cases, to the victim.

I do agree that every possible resource and help available appears to favour the criminal and not the victim and it is a very different reaction when it involves ourselves or our loved ones and yes there are some mindless tw*ts out there.. quite a lot of them. It is, as you say, difficult to remain sympathetic or understanding. I sometimes see the damage evolving from a very early age, and it makes no difference whether it is intentional or unintentional from the parents...it will not make the end result different. If someone harms someone, they remain harmed...and no amount of understanding will ever alter that. I don't know what the answer is Livia

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'd rather be considered naive then disturbingly bloodthirsty. Like I said before how a person treats their lessers says a lot about them.




Yes it does, you just don't have a counter for it so you're doing the equivelant of sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!'

America's one of the few countries that's quite comparable to us in a lot of ways that still deals capital punishment so if it costs them tons of money to execute someone because of appeals, court procedures, Human Rights checks ETC then it would probably be a similar case in the UK if they brought back the death penalty.

AFAIK, the legal and punitive systems in the U.S.A. are radically different from those in England, letalone the rest of the UK.

It's a fair comparison, you're just trying to void it because it destroys your little 'Killing people is financially sound' argument. Why don't you try another way to justify your bloodlust hmm?

As I said, you're judging me without knowing me - and you're even misquoting me, since I said "in an age of austerity, "disposal" of violent criminal offenders makes financial sense"

Okay then, what do you propose? Based on America, executions tend to cost more then life terms so what would you do? Bin all rehabilitation efforts just because it doesn't always work? Just let potential re-offenders rot in prison until they are released and free to do it all again? Like I've made a point of saying, all in all a prison sentence is cheaper then an execution so why would you not try to rehabilitate criminals for the sake of the public when they are released?

"executions tend to cost more then life terms" & "a prison sentence is cheaper then an execution" - can you substantiate those statement with figures ?

Does rehabilitation work ? I have not yet done any research - if you have some figures, I'll be interested to check out your sources ..... ;

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

Ew at people sticking up for him
What a vile trait

This.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't care about finacially,we need to think about this countries safety and we are better off without psycho's like him than with psycho's like him.