[Nedusa]

The Obama administration has publicly expressed concern about the impact of a UK referendum on its future relationship with the EU.
Philip Gordon, a senior official in the US State Department, said it was in America's interests to see a "strong British voice within the EU".
"Referendums have often turned countries inwards," he added.
The comments come as David Cameron prepares to make a major speech later this month on future European policy.
In response, No 10 said: "The US wants an outward-looking EU with Britain in it, and so do we."
The prime minister is facing pressure to hold a referendum on Europe at some stage during the next Parliament and has said the Conservatives will offer voters "real change" and "real choice" on the UK's position in Europe at the next election - scheduled for 2015.

The vast majority of the population of the UK want an in/out referendum on the EU..most of us detest it..including myself. We did not vote for this in its current form and powers have been virtually stripped from us bit by bit ever since we opted for the common market. Trade in fact is all we voted for, we did not vote for this attack on our sovereignty nor for the £40 Million that we are forced to give these faceless,corrupt institutions every single day..!!!

The EU is a millstone around our necks we can do without, these unelected crooks dictate everything...from our courts to farms...to fishing...robbing us daily.The continental countries hate us,we have nothing in common with them. I would prefer a treaty with all of the Commonwealth countries a total of sum 2.5 Billion souls...in fact we have a treaty its called the Commonwealth. Why dont we expand and develop that group of countries.

Lets have a Referendum and vote to leave this corrupt unrepresentative cabal, try and use the money saved to rescue the UK from one of the worst recessions ever and then try to build trading bridges with our Commonwealth partners...!!!

And when EU companies refuse to trade with British companies after we've just accused them of being crooks and left their organisation, that will help whom exactly?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

And when EU companies refuse to trade with British companies after we've just accused them of being crooks and left their organisation, that will help whom exactly?

I think the problems lie with the Political monster that the EU has now become, not European companies per se....!!!

[arista]

USA has it wrong
UK is staying in Europe Market
but correcting it.

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I think the problems lie with the Political monster that the EU has now become, not European companies per se....!!!

So how do you deal with that situation, once we've walked into the distance flashing 2 fingers at them as we leave?

You don't believe that EU companies have any obligation to their government, or to the rest of the organisations that remain partners in the EU? I presume you've thought this all through, because you can't surely think it's as easy as saying "we're out" and everything else continues in the same way?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

So how do you deal with that situation, once we've walked into the distance flashing 2 fingers at them as we leave?

You don't believe that EU companies have any obligation to their government, or to the rest of the organisations that remain partners in the EU? I presume you've thought this all through, because you can't surely think it's as easy as saying "we're out" and everything else continues in the same way?

We live in a Global Village and in theory can trade with all companies (incl European ones). The issue at question is how the Political structures that now constitute the EU affect the UK. From the perspective of trading with European Companies I'm sure the UK is subject to a mass of EU regulations covering everything from Import taxes to curvature of Banana's.

But the purpose of this thread is to discuss how the whole European project which first had Britain's involvement in 1974 has changed beyond all recognition from a Trading alliance to its present form of peusdo European Superstate, with all the accompanying rules,regulations,laws (Human rights Acts) and the UK's legal obligation to follow these laws which supersede our own highest lawmaking body ie House of Lords. Our Courts ie High Court or soon to be established UK Supreme Court will still not have the final say over the European Supreme Court.

So is it right we pay so much and give away so much of our indepenent Sovereignty for what....!!!! not needing a passport to go to France eg.. is that a fair exchange ????

[the truth]

were right to be euro sceptical and untie ourselves further from their monolithic burocracy and obscene waste...ultimately the most competitive companies will survive and thrive, not just the ones protected by the eu cartel

for once obamas admin are wrong

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by the truth

were right to be euro sceptical and untie ourselves further from their monolithic burocracy and obscene waste...ultimately the most competitive companies will survive and thrive, not just the ones protected by the eu cartel

for once obamas admin are wrong

Is that We're as in We are or do you mean we were?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by the truth

were right to be euro sceptical and untie ourselves further from their monolithic burocracy and obscene waste...ultimately the most competitive companies will survive and thrive, not just the ones protected by the eu cartel

for once obamas admin are wrong

I do not think the British public will ever get the chance to vote in a referendum in which the choices are simply stated ie stay in or leave. The powers that be have already decided that the British people should never be allowed to decide such a serious issue. Banks,Corporations and Big Business do not want the UK to leave as the short term financial impacts would seriously affect the markets.

Successive Govts have used every political trick in the book to deny the British public the right to decide their own future. They think the public are probably too stupid to decide such an issue. It's scandalous really as we elect politicians to do our bidding and represent our interests.

Will we ever see a referendum on this subject... Don't hold your breath !!

[Niall]

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous if we left the EU. We'd lose all sway with their trading policies which affect us so profoundly amongst a whole load of other things that I can't quite call to mind right now.

It would just be a stupid move. If we left we'd just wind up as an isolated, mid-level world power.

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I do not think the British public will ever get the chance to vote in a referendum in which the choices are simply stated ie stay in or leave. The powers that be have already decided that the British people should never be allowed to decide such a serious issue. Banks,Corporations and Big Business do not want the UK to leave as the short term financial impacts would seriously affect the markets.

Successive Govts have used every political trick in the book to deny the British public the right to decide their own future. They think the public are probably too stupid to decide such an issue. It's scandalous really as we elect politicians to do our bidding and represent our interests.

Will we ever see a referendum on this subject... Don't hold your breath !!

Why do you think that is? Governments of all political persuasions would seriously damage the (already weak) economy by stripping away protections and business from British companies. You can say anything else you like about Europe, but financially it would be disastrous for trade in this country.

The right are generally anti-European, so why haven't they rushed to get us out of Europe with a popular policy amongst the s*n readers of the UK? They know there would be real life consequences.

[joeysteele]

I really think it time that David Cameron takes hold of this issue and sets out exactly his position as to the EU.
He really needs to also reign in his Chancellor who is being really unhelpful as to this issue.

The UK never needs to change its currency to remain in the EU and the one thing Gordon Brown got totally right was to thwart all attempts by Tony Blair to lead the UK to joining the Euro.

An in/out referendum can not be considered, we have a media that would never provide a balanced argument for and against and I do believe there would be a likely out vote as to the EU by the voters.
To hold a referendum that was not binding would be a total waste of funds and time and so I believe David Cameron has to stop pussyfooting around and state clearly that there will be no referendum as to being in or out of the EU.

Re-negotiation of certain areas of EU policy is the better way to go, no referendum is needed as to that,likely 75% of people would support that in my opinion. David Cameron should go down that route, as should also Ed Miliband and the Labour party and for goodness sake,get this confusion and contradiction of opinions of the EU sorted once and for all for a good while into the future.

My view, it would be folly to leave the EU, however this Govt is not helping move this issue on and in fact all David Cameron is doing is making himself look weak and is also fuelling the anti EU media in the UK.
Prime Ministers are elected to lead not follow, it is time this PM started to do just that especially as to the EU.

[Kizzy]

I think it is catastrophic...
We move out of europe souring our relationship with our EU neighbours, against the advice of America souring our relations with them too.
I am scared Cameron has been cosying up to some who might not have everyones best interests at heart in the name of 'free trade'?

[Livia]

Before the Conservatives were in power they promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. By the time they got into power, the Treaty had already been ratified and a referendum would have been a waste of time and money. There was an explosion of complaints that the Conservatives had gone back on their word to give us a referendum over Europe. Now that they're talking again about a proper referendum - not a pointless one on an already ratified treaty - they're wrong again.

In the early seventies the majority of the people in this country decided that we should join the Common Market. If, forty years later and they are given the opportunity to say whether we remain in Europe or leave, I'm confident in the decision the public will make.

[Kizzy]

If we have any sense, we will stay.

[arista]

We are staying (as the PM said ITV1HD Live this morning on Daybreak)
all it is just
adjusting the rules.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

We are staying (as the PM said ITV1HD Live this morning on Daybreak)
all it is just
adjusting the rules.

Britain has certain requests to make about rule changes, I'm not sure that the rest of Europe will agree. In fact it's almost certain that they won't.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Before the Conservatives were in power they promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. By the time they got into power, the Treaty had already been ratified and a referendum would have been a waste of time and money. There was an explosion of complaints that the Conservatives had gone back on their word to give us a referendum over Europe. Now that they're talking again about a proper referendum - not a pointless one on an already ratified treaty - they're wrong again.

In the early seventies the majority of the people in this country decided that we should join the Common Market. If, forty years later and they are given the opportunity to say whether we remain in Europe or leave, I'm confident in the decision the public will make.

I agree with you overall,although I still feel the promise of any in/out referendum would be a very dangerous gamble by any PM and Govt.

Looking back and reading back to the mid 70s when the referendum was held then, the media was less hostile as to Europe and also it was largely about trading agreements too.
The EU now is as you know, far more than that sort of trading consortium from the mid 70s. A great number of the UK citizens still fear and oppose massively even the remote possibility that the UK could one day join the Euro.
I feel, that fear could lead to a no vote and so I hope David Cameron rules out any in/out referendum.

Personally,I would vote to remain in the EU, however I am surrounded by a great many others who would on what they know of the EU vote no to staying in.
I also see no point whatsoever as to holding a referendum as to re-negotiations,the public would support that massively.

You are also spot on that the Conservatives didn't really break any promise of a referendum before, as to the Lisbon treaty particularly, it was ratified before they came to office so any referendum would have been equally pointless and a waste fo funds as to that.

Dangerous move and gamble though now to even hint at holding an in/out referendum after the next election, the result could be catastrophic for the UK's economy and secure future.
Not to mention our likely standing in the World.

Personally, I think if an in/out referendum was held in the near future,there could be actually a majority of feeling in support of staying in the EU but I do feel the anti EU brigade and those who would vote to come out of the EU would be the more certain to make the effort to go out and vote in such a referendum while a good number who likely support staying in would not bother to go out and vote.
Such a referendum made binding on a Govt could be likely disastrous for generations to come.
I would be very worried myself about a promise of an in/out referendum.Hopefully the PM will discard that thought at this time.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Britain has certain requests to make about rule changes, I'm not sure that the rest of Europe will agree. In fact it's almost certain that they won't.

Maybe
but France is in talks with our PM

[Livia]

I think the current popularity of UKIP says much about the British public's thoughts on Europe. The opening of our borders to Bulgaria and Romania is not going to do anything to strengthen the argument to stay in Europe.

I'm not sure of my own stance on this. I can see arguments for leaving and arguments for staying.

[Kizzy]

My guess is he wants an amendment, I guess a lot of countries do too... What makes us so special?
We won't have a referendum it's a bluff.

[Nedusa]

There is nothing to negotiate, the UK is a net contributor to the EU and always will be. If we do not pay what we currently pay then our political standing within the EU will diminish even more and we will be subject to more rules,more regulations and more meddling with our sovereignty. If we want more say and less regulation then we would have to pay more, quid pro quo no less.

So any referendum offering a box on "re-negotiation" is wasted vote as Britain is caught in a trap as described above. The only way is to exit completely and and negotiate from scratch all new EU treaties... not try and re-negotiate from a position of inherent weakness...!!!

[the truth]

we need to debate the matters first. the entire eu is a disaster as far as im concerned, theyll bribe and coerce and blackmail nations to go their way in their freeloading cartel, but the entire thing defies the laws of economics and ultimately will fail. itll be a sort of titanic sinkage but itll take 40 years and cost a few trillion, but the result will be the same

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

My guess is he wants an amendment, I guess a lot of countries do too... What makes us so special?
We won't have a referendum it's a bluff.

Yes like New Labour did

[joeysteele]

I really do wish the PM luck with any re-negotiations he undertakes, personally I cannot see him gaining much of real importance but full credit to him for trying.

What I cannot take in, from all I have heard today, is just what he is intending as to a referendum.
He is trapped with the issue of the EU by his party and also the outside world of the EU. If he is not going to hold an in/out referendum as to the EU then don't hold any referendum or promise one and end up looking foolish and weak.

Few,if any, in the UK would not support any concessions or better deals he got from the EU,if he got any then what on earth is the point if holding a referendum for the voters to say they agree as to them.
Clearly such a referendum would have a 'No I do not agree' box to tick as well as a 'Yes I agree' one.

All that would likely happen there in my view is that the anti EU brigade would use it as an attempt to win the 'no' side of it, what does he do then. If he wins any concessions,askes in a referendum at likely high cost if the voters support the changes and then he gets a resonding no they don't agree result.

Why does this PM dig big holes to fall into on issues,just spell out what he hopes for as to concessions and re-negotiations then accept them as head of the UK govt.
This is all so cloudy,I cannot see voters falling for it at all. It is all for after the next election and he will unlikely be trusted on it,as he will not be either with the NHS.