[Ammi]

..I saw this on another site and found it quite an emotional video..Ronald Davis gives you a tiny insight into what it feels like to be homeless...

Youtube video

[lostalex]

You don't see the whole story though. you don't hear about how his family tried to help him and then they caught him stealing from them, or coming home drunk as **** and being violent. Often there's a reason why they are not welcome by their family any more.

I still have compassion for all people, but it's important to remember that often times these people have other more serious issues, including substance abuse, and violence, and serious mental health issues that they refuse to get help for, and other serious reasons why these people are no longer welcome in their family's homes.

We don't live in victorian times, you can't force someone to go into treatment, or have them put in a mental health facility against their will. If they won't get help, often times they end up on the street. There is help available to them though.

[joeysteele]

It is a thought provoking video,thank you for putting it on here Ammi.
I was talking to someone who is homeless,I do often anyway,they are people after all we never know how we will end up really.
Even over the winter he was sleeping rough where he was allowed to by the Police that is.

I tried to take him for a meal but even McDonalds wouldn't let him in so I got a takeaway and stayed to eat it with him and then chatted to him.
He would love to have the things I have, he had been successful in his life but a marital breakdown and depression and illness had brought him right down.
Since becoming homeless,he had tried to accept help but something always in time goes wrong and it ends.

So he said, being as he is now, is hard but at least he knows what his day,every day, will be like, he knows what he has at present and the way he lives cannot be changed and taken from him.
He has come to expect that if anything good happens it will soon end and be taken away again and his hopes and expectations dashed again.

I found it really sad but I also left admiring him for his courage,because I would find it near impossible to live as he does,yet he smiles and sings his way through the day.
Maybe most of the odd bits of money thrown at him, do get wasted on alcohol or cigarettes but how he is,if that helps him cope, who am I to judge that from my comfortable existence.

I know it brought a tear to my eyes and even more so when I said I had to head off now but would see him again, we walked out of a shopping centre and he thanked me for talking to him.
As the automatic doors opened at the exit, he smiled and said, ''see I even get doors opened for me''.
When I am in that area,I always look out for him and chat, he is always amused that I immediately shake his hand, he says no one usually wants to shake his hand.

I don't know what the answer is but if there is ever one, it needs to be of a permanent format and also designed to rebuild the dignity of the person and more to the point nurture that dignity long term into the future.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It is a thought provoking video,thank you for putting it on here Ammi.
I was talking to someone who is homeless,I do often anyway,they are people after all we never know how we will end up really.
Even over the winter he was sleeping rough where he was allowed to by the Police that is.

I tried to take him for a meal but even McDonalds wouldn't let him in so I got a takeaway and stayed to eat it with him and then chatted to him.
He would love to have the things I have, he had been successful in his life but a marital breakdown and depression and illness had brought him right down.
Since becoming homeless,he had tried to accept help but something always in time goes wrong and it ends.

So he said, being as he is now, is hard but at least he knows what his day,every day, will be like, he knows what he has at present and the way he lives cannot be changed and taken from him.
He has come to expect that if anything good happens it will soon end and be taken away again and his hopes and expectations dashed again.

I found it really sad but I also left admiring him for his courage,because I would find it near impossible to live as he does,yet he smiles and sings his way through the day.
Maybe most of the odd bits of money thrown at him, do get wasted on alcohol or cigarettes but how he is,if that helps him cope, who am I to judge that from my comfortable existence.

I know it brought a tear to my eyes and even more so when I said I had to head off now but would see him again, we walked out of a shopping centre and he thanked me for talking to him.
As the automatic doors opened at the exit, he smiled and said, ''see I even get doors opened for me''.
When I am in that area,I always look out for him and chat, he is always amused that I immediately shake his hand, he says no one usually wants to shake his hand.

I don't know what the answer is but if there is ever one, it needs to be of a permanent format and also designed to rebuild the dignity of the person and more to the point nurture that dignity long term into the future.

..yeah, I don't know what the answer is either Joey because in a weird way, the guy you met had found an existence which he didn't feel was going to disappoint him or let him down...so a strange kind of contentment..(that's not really the right word..)...but he expected nothing and got nothing and would rather just accept that, than try for something more..?....and yeah, I agree..who are we to judge what helps them get through the day..cigarettes, alcohol...our lives are completely different....

..Joey, you're an amazing young man and I have nothing but admiration for you, chatting to that guy and sharing a MacDonalds would have meant so much to him...for someone to actually give him their time......

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah, I don't know what the answer is either Joey because in a weird way, the guy you met had found an existence which he didn't feel was going to disappoint him or let him down...so a strange kind of contentment..(that's not really the right word..)...but he expected nothing and got nothing and would rather just accept that, than try for something more..?....and yeah, I agree..who are we to judge what helps them get through the day..cigarettes, alcohol...our lives are completely different....

..Joey, you're an amazing young man and I have nothing but admiration for you, chatting to that guy and sharing a MacDonalds would have meant so much to him...for someone to actually give him their time......

It is a contentment Ammi, he knows what to expect each day, it is a kind of coping mechanism that he at least knows nothing will be different every day.

When Mcdonalds refused him entrance,I wouldn't get anything from them,I went and got some substantial Chinese takeaway and he was massively grateful.
Time I have Ammi, he was someone who needed my time but also didn't even ask for it.
It is in my view anyway, the right and decent thing to do.
He had a really good life story to tell too, far better than even some of the people I am around day after day. I learned more from him than he would learn and take from me.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It is a contentment Ammi, he knows what to expect each day, it is a kind of coping mechanism that he at least knows nothing will be different every day.

When Mcdonalds refused him entrance,I wouldn't get anything from them,I went and got some substantial Chinese takeaway and he was massively grateful.
Time I have Ammi, he was someone who needed my time but also didn't even ask for it.
It is in my view anyway, the right and decent thing to do.
He had a really good life story to tell too, far better than even some of the people I am around day after day. I learned more from him than he would learn and take from me.

..yeah, that's it Joey..there's nothing better you can give someone than your time..and in his case, a hot meal as well...that's something he won't get very often from people and you made a day that wasn't a disappointment for him...that was a great gift...and yes, everyone has a story and you can take something from that yourself..so both of your lives were enriched...

...if I had half your wisdom at your age, I'd be a very wise person indeed, Joey....

[lostalex]

You guys have no idea how patronizing you sound.

[Niall]

It disgusts me that we live in a society that allows this to happen. There should really be some sort of proper state-funded network of temporary housing for the homeless. I'm not of aware of such a system existing right now (there probably is and I don't know about it), because all I hear of is charity funded options that can never quite meet the demand that is asked of them. More should be done to help these people. I can't even begin to comprehend how it must feel to not know where you're going to sleep at night or where your next meal is coming from..

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niall

It disgusts me that we live in a society that allows this to happen. There should really be some sort of proper state-funded network of temporary housing for the homeless. I'm not of aware of such a system existing right now (there probably is and I don't know about it), because all I hear of is charity funded options that can never quite meet the demand that is asked of them. More should be done to help these people. I can't even begin to comprehend how it must feel to not know where you're going to sleep at night or where your next meal is coming from..

That is the problem Niall. I completely agree that there should be at the very least be somewhere safe for the homeless to go to and most certainly at nights too.
Especially then freeing them from some of the Police moving them on, some Police don't, in fact some officers look out for those sleeping rough,making sure they are okay.
Unfortunately other Police officers seem to enjoy harassing the homeless.
Charities too can only do so much and they are really being squeezed now too.

However,it is the temporary part of any solution that could cause problems too, as with the guy I have spoken to,everything offered him has been temporary since his life fell into this sad state.
Something temporary would only lead to more disappointment and further problems for the homeless. So many of them would reject it knowing they were likely only to end up back on the streets again.

Offering them and ensuring they have something permanent, is what is needed,something they can know and believe won't be taken away from them again.

[InOne]

There's quite a lot of help for the homeless here. Although it doesn't seem like it. Some avoid the hostels because they're so unpredictable and violent, some have serious mental health issues and some aren't even homeless at all. I think it's only a tiny % that are truly down and out.

[lostalex]

i tried to tell them inOne.... they ignored my post.

They arn't interested in an actual discussion about the homeless, they are too busy sucking each other's asses and congratulating themselves for being such kind and generous people towards the homeless. They don't want to talk about the real issue.

Omg, so I like totally gave a homeless thing some food and I actually TALKED to it. Isn't that amazeballs? I totally realized that it was a real life person, like a real human being! isn't that crayzeee? I'm such a good person.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i tried to tell them inOne.... they ignored my post.

They arn't interested in an actual discussion about the homeless, they are too busy sucking each other's asses and congratulating themselves for being such kind and generous people towards the homeless. They don't want to talk about the real issue.

It has nothing to do with sucking up to others Lostalex, maybe it is different in the States to here but in fact there is very little to help the homeless albeit a tiny minority who are genuinely homeless in the UK like InOne said.

I don't and never have consdered myself kind and generous to the homeless or anyone else,I try to do my best for other people who I come across in life no matter their status.
I shared an experience I had with a genuinely homeless person who I learned I had more in common with than many people may have thought they would.

You do not know and did not see the whole event of my time with him so to call it patronising and sucking up to others because we can see there is a need for something to be done as to real and permanent help is a bit out of order really.

Your generalisation that there is help if they want it is possibly far more patronising than any help some people may give to the homeless.
I for one anyway am not going to bypass those who I see with problems no matter what their problems are, with the words there is help there if you want it.
I would actually rather try to do something and I do not just help out a bit here and there, I do a lot of voluntary activity with the homeless which was sparked by the education this particular homeless guy gave me as to his needs.

To say,there is help there if you want it, is in my view passing the buck and virtually ignoring another human being, I have never done that in my llife so far,thankfully.

[lostalex]

but you didn't address any of the issues i brought up. Like i said before you can't FORCE people into treatment. We can't go back to victorian times when you just put those type of people into institutions, so what do you do?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on possible solutions, instead of just lamenting that there's not enough being done.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is the problem Niall. I completely agree that there should be at the very least be somewhere safe for the homeless to go to and most certainly at nights too.
Especially then freeing them from some of the Police moving them on, some Police don't, in fact some officers look out for those sleeping rough,making sure they are okay.
Unfortunately other Police officers seem to enjoy harassing the homeless.
Charities too can only do so much and they are really being squeezed now too.

However,it is the temporary part of any solution that could cause problems too, as with the guy I have spoken to,everything offered him has been temporary since his life fell into this sad state.
Something temporary would only lead to more disappointment and further problems for the homeless. So many of them would reject it knowing they were likely only to end up back on the streets again.

Offering them and ensuring they have something permanent, is what is needed,something they can know and believe won't be taken away from them again.

I agre with all of that really. I mean the whole temporary nature of it could be sorted with unemployment benefits until they secure work? I think they should have some sort of aftercare too for a period of time to make sure they're okay.

I don't know, I just hate the way society can be so brutal and sweep these people under the rug. In such a wealthy nation like this it should be relatively simple to fix.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but you didn't address any of the issues i brought up. Like i said before you can't FORCE people into treatment. We can't go back to victorian times when you just put those type of people into institutions, so what do you do?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on possible solutions, instead of just lamenting that there's not enough being done.

You are missing the point Lostalex, with full respect, I said I didn't know what the answer was because they don't trust help since most likely think it will not last.
I loved hearing this guys life story as with the guy in the video, they want to talk to people, for me it is far more patronising to throw a few coins at them and walk away.

I would hate to think of people in this situation being institutionalised, that would be wrong.
I would like to see them given their dignity back, a permanence of residence that they can believe in and know is secure 'if' they want that. Their choices.

I am not mega rich that I can solve this problem,I wish I could but I cannot.
I said I didn't know what the answer was,however I would at least like as a starting point that 'safe' dwellings for nights was available,that at least would stop them being moved on and harrassed by the Police but if any homeless person really wanted to change their current existence then I wish the powers that run the Country would ensure things were in place to achieve that.

To learn what that may be, they would need to talk to the homeless though, since no votes are in that, it is unlikely they will do so.

I cannot answer your questions/issues,I said I 'hadn't the answers',as with the video in the OP who shared his story, I then shared an experience I had with a homeless person who opened my eyes to this problem.
You mention treatment, what treatment, not all the homeless need treatment of anything,just confidence, dignity and some status restored that they can rely on to last and not be taken away as fast as it may be provided.

That's as far as I have got on this to the present, I will as I deal with more homeless people learn more hopefully as to their real needs and more to the point hopes and what they would also accept.
I would never be and never have been in favour of anyone being forced to do something against their will anyway.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niall

I agre with all of that really. I mean the whole temporary nature of it could be sorted with unemployment benefits until they secure work? I think they should have some sort of aftercare too for a period of time to make sure they're okay.

I don't know, I just hate the way society can be so brutal and sweep these people under the rug. In such a wealthy nation like this it should be relatively simple to fix.

I agree Niall, especially the end of your post really says a lot.

[lostalex]

they arn't being "swept under the rug" we all confront them on a daily basis, how is that being swept under a rug??? You can't ignore them even if you want to.

[Ammi]

..but that isn’t Ronald Davis’ viewpoint though Alex and his is from the view of a homeless person, when he feels most people don’t even engage in eye contact and would rather just walk by or maybe even throw an insult..?...

..I understand what you’re saying and agree with you that no one can force people to seek the help there is available or if anyone has mental health issues, they can’t be kept in some Victorian institution where they were equally forgotten in those times and addicts must also want to help themselves...but the fact is that there isn’t a huge amount of help available and it isn’t patronising to buy someone who is homeless a meal or spend time talking to them ..it’s not going to change their situation permanently but hopefully it’ll make that one day a bit better..it doesn’t sound as though that guy felt patronised by what Joey did at all, so it’s not for anyone else to decide that’s the case ..and they do all have ‘stories’ of how they became homeless and maybe there is huge fault in some cases for that as well...but that isn’t a reason to feel..oh they’ve messed up big time, so maybe they deserve it and it’s not my problem..and I’m not saying that’s what you do either...as you said, you can’t ignore homeless people as they are a fact, for whatever the reasons of their situation..and Joey didn’t ignore it, neither did he say he had a long term solution for it...but it didn’t have to be one extreme or another...to ignore and walk on by or attempt to solve the situation for that person...he spent some time talking and sharing a meal...that’s not patronising Alex, its compassion for a fellow human being...and the only person who could comment on whether they felt patronised is the homeless guy himself...which he didn’t..he shook Joey’s hand instead....

[arista]

Of Course he is a Human Being

but still at that time a Tramp or Bum

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by lostalex

You don't see the whole story though. you don't hear about how his family tried to help him and then they caught him stealing from them, or coming home drunk as **** and being violent. Often there's a reason why they are not welcome by their family any more.

I still have compassion for all people, but it's important to remember that often times these people have other more serious issues, including substance abuse, and violence, and serious mental health issues that they refuse to get help for, and other serious reasons why these people are no longer welcome in their family's homes.

We don't live in victorian times, you can't force someone to go into treatment, or have them put in a mental health facility against their will. If they won't get help, often times they end up on the street. There is help available to them though.

great post alex!, there are two sides to every story, for every one genuine case there are three that are playing the system!.