[Nedusa]

A watchdog is to investigate whether the firing of a Taser by a police officer at a man doused in flammable liquid caused fatal burns.
Andrew Pimlott, 32, suffered serious injuries in the incident in Honicknowle, Plymouth, on the evening of April 18.
He was taken to Derriford Hospital in Plymouth and subsequently transferred to the specialist burns unit at Frenchay Hospital in Bristol where he died five days later.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission said two Devon and Cornwall Police officers attended the address following a 999 call from an occupant shortly after 9pm.
The caller said Mr Pimlott was in the garden with a can of flammable liquid. Shortly after the police arrived he sustained serious burn injuries and an ambulance was called. An officer deployed a Taser during the incident, said the watchdog.
IPCC Commissioner Sarah Green said: "My condolences go to Andrew's family and friends for their loss. This must be a very difficult time for them and we have appointed a family liaison manager who is ensuring the family are kept informed.
"Our investigators have already carried out a number of actions, including interviewing the two police officers who attended the incident and ensuring relevant evidence has been secured. A post-mortem was carried out and further forensic analysis will be carried out. The IPCC had informed the coroner of our investigation and we will share our report in due course.
"Our investigation will be looking at what information was known to the officers attending the scene; the officer's rationale for discharging a Taser on a person known to be doused in flammable liquid; whether the discharge of the Taser caused the fuel to ignite; and we will look at training and policies."
In separate statements, Mr Pimlott's parents, sisters and family paid tribute. His parents wrote: "Dear darling son Andrew, You were a fantastic son to us, you will always be in our hearts and thoughts. We will never forget you. Be in our heart forever and always, we send a million kisses up to heaven. All our love Mum and Dad. xxx"
Sisters Michelle and Marie and family wrote: "Dearest brother Andrew, You were a dear brother and uncle to us all. We are going to miss you so much and you will never be far from all our thoughts. You will always hold a place in all our hearts."

Does anyone think the Police were correct in Tasering this man...???

[lostalex]

I missed the part that explains why or how he was doused in flammable liquid to begin with...

[Nedusa]

I think the main point of debate here is whether a Police officer knowing the man was doused in a flammable liquid should have deployed a taser which is basically a high voltage stun gun. Even an idiot would know fumes from the flammable liquid and sparks from a Taser could result in a fire....!!!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I think the main point of debate here is whether a Police officer knowing the man was doused in a flammable liquid should have deployed a taser which is basically a high voltage stun gun. Even an idiot would know fumes from the flammable liquid and sparks from a Taser could result in a fire....!!!

but if he doused himself in flammable liquid it's certainly possible that he was attempting to self immolate and set himself alight, right? I wanna know his motivations, was he suicidal? did he have a history of mental illness? did his wife just leave him? Was he fired from his job? Was he drunk? what the hell was going on?

We next some context for this story.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but if he doused himself in flammable liquid it's certainly possible that he was attempting to self immolate and set himself alight, right?

Yes that's the conclusion I would draw but if I was a friend of this man and I knew he had a fragile mental state then I would have called the police in the expectation they as trained officers would have experience in these types of situations and could possibly talk to the man and try and put a blanket over him , perhaps call an ambulance.

What I would not expect is for the Police to rush with Tasers drawn and then discharge their Tasers resulting in the man exploding into flames...!!!

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but if he doused himself in flammable liquid it's certainly possible that he was attempting to self immolate and set himself alight, right? I wanna know his motivations, was he suicidal? did he have a history of mental illness? did his wife just leave him? Was he fired from his job? Was he drunk? what the hell was going on?

We next some context for this story.

I have been reading a few news reports on this incident but at present am unable to find the back story to this man , ie his circumstances leading up to this tragic incident. I will try and post more info if I can find it.

[Nedusa]

"While the police watchdog continues its inquiry, The Herald has now learned that Mr Pimlott had been in court just hours before the drama in West Park.

He appeared before Plymouth magistrates earlier that day where he was handed a restraining order, banning him from that location.

Court records show that Mr Pimlott attended court on the morning of April 18. He had pleaded guilty to an offence of causing damage to a framed picture.

Magistrates had revoked a previous community order passed in relation to a number of alcohol-related offences and re-sentenced Mr Pimlott. Magistrates passed a restraining order against him which banned him from contacting, harassing or approaching two named people who were registered at the address where the tragic incident occurred later the same day.

Part of the community order which was passed also required him to have treatment for alcohol dependency under the direction of Devon and Cornwall Probation Trust.

He was set to return to court on May 21 to review how his treatment was going"

The above is from the Plymouth Herald so it seems this man was troubled and had already been banned from the property. Maybe as he had alcohol issues he decided under the influence he was going to set fire to the house rather than let his wife or partner live there. Maybe this was a serious domestic incident that ended up with tragic consequences.

Even so it is clearly stated in Police procedures that no Taser should be discharged when there have been spills of flammable liquids nearby.

[lostalex]

wait, so was the flammable liquid...liquor? I had assumed it was gasoline.

If he was an alcoholic, i'm sure the police deal with people that smell like liquor every single day, how would they know he had doused himself in it?

[reece(:]

I think these officers seem taser-happy, they should think before they decide to just shoot because anything could and will happen, such as this.

[Jack_]

Disgusting.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

wait, so was the flammable liquid...liquor? I had assumed it was gasoline.

If he was an alcoholic, i'm sure the police deal with people that smell like liquor every single day, how would they know he had doused himself in it?

I think it was gasoline/petrol and that the people living in the property would have told the police what he was doing, still not sure if his intention was to set fire to the house and he accidentally spilled the fuel over himself or if he had lost the plot and deliberately poured the fuel over himself . Either way they should not have gone near him with a Taser under those conditions.

[Livia]

Police have to react very quickly to incidents and make split-second judgements. Sometimes those judgements are wrong, they're not robots, they're human. We only know a little bit about what went on. I don't think anyone can saywhether they were right or wrong in this instance without being in change of all the facts.

[lostalex]

I agree with Livia, we need all the facts, and we need to know exactly what the police were dealing with on that day in that instant.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I agree with Livia, we need all the facts, and we need to know exactly what the police were dealing with on that day in that instant.

I think maybe the man was on a one way ticket to oblivion he had been banned from going to that premises but went anyway , he was more than likely very drunk and was not thinking straight, maybe he gave the police no choice , more facts on this will come out I'm sure.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Livia

Police have to react very quickly to incidents and make split-second judgements. Sometimes those judgements are wrong, they're not robots, they're human. We only know a little bit about what went on. I don't think anyone can saywhether they were right or wrong in this instance without being in change of all the facts.

agreed

[Nedusa]

Given the horrific outcome of this tragic event, I think it
serves as a timely reminder that the use of Tasers must be used sparingly and as a last resort similar to firearms.

Also all officers using Tasers must be thoroughly trained in its deployment in all circumstances. People who think this is a suitable weapon to use in most casual circumstances are mistaken, this gun can deliver a 50,000 volt shock to the system which in itself can cause a wide range of unexpected consequences ranging from heart attacks to epileptic fits or seizures.

Not a weapon to be used lightly, specialised training is absolutely essential.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Given the horrific outcome of this tragic event, I think it
serves as a timely reminder that the use of Tasers must be used sparingly and as a last resort similar to firearms.

Also all officers using Tasers must be thoroughly trained in its deployment in all circumstances. People who think this is a suitable weapon to use in most casual circumstances are mistaken, this gun can deliver a 50,000 volt shock to the system which in itself can cause a wide range of unexpected consequences ranging from heart attacks to epileptic fits or seizures.

Not a weapon to be used lightly, specialised training is absolutely essential.

Got to agree with that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Given the horrific outcome of this tragic event, I think it
serves as a timely reminder that the use of Tasers must be used sparingly and as a last resort similar to firearms.

Also all officers using Tasers must be thoroughly trained in its deployment in all circumstances. People who think this is a suitable weapon to use in most casual circumstances are mistaken, this gun can deliver a 50,000 volt shock to the system which in itself can cause a wide range of unexpected consequences ranging from heart attacks to epileptic fits or seizures.

Not a weapon to be used lightly, specialised training is absolutely essential.

I think the police may already have the training issue sorted, and that they are well aware of the capabilities of a taser.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think the police may already have the training issue sorted, and that they are well aware of the capabilities of a taser.

I don't .... and clearly their casual use of this dangerous weapon leaves a lot to be desired...!!!!!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I don't .... and clearly their casual use of this dangerous weapon leaves a lot to be desired...!!!!!

Yes... so is advocating victims arm themselves with handguns and take out the bullies in the school, which is what you were advocating on another thread.

You know nothing about this particular incident and yet, like many others, you immediately call for police training and police restraint... I hope one day the police say, you know what? We're knocking off today - you lot can sort it out on your own. Perhaps all the critics of the police will then get the opportunity to show us how it's done.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes... so is advocating victims arm themselves with handguns and take out the bullies in the school, which is what you were advocating on another thread.

You know nothing about this particular incident and yet, like many others, you immediately call for police training and police restraint... I hope one day the police say, you know what? We're knocking off today - you lot can sort it out on your own. Perhaps all the critics of the police will then get the opportunity to show us how it's done.

my comment re the Bullies was tongue in cheek obviously I'm not seriously calling for 12 year old girls to take up arms, but my concerns re the use of the Taser are very serious.

At the risk of repeating myself I'll say it again, Tasers are not toys they deliver powerful high voltage shocks to the target and this depending on the medical condition of the person targeted can led to serious unexpected consequences ie heart attacks,fits and seizures. Before discharging a weapon like this on a member of the public the police officer must have adaquate training and by adaquate I mean more than 3 days. they must like a firearms officer have the correct psychological profile which means they can act rationally under pressure and not let their emotions drive their responses.

Tasers should not be given to police officers unless these conditions are satisfied. We have seen and heard increasing number of reports of Tasers being fired by officers inappropriately , at young teenagers, pregnant mothers and even a blind man with a walking stick...!!!

They can and still should be used and form part of the police's armoury but any attempt to randomise or generalise their use should by carefully monitored so situations like the ones I described above as well as the man who is the subject of this thread are avoided....!!!!!