[Kizzy]

You have to ask what would make a rational mind capable of killing then.
What are the methods used and how are they implemented?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have to ask what would make a rational mind capable of killing then.
What are the methods used and how are they implemented?

So many questions and so few answers as to this problem and as you say if the mind was rational how could they be made to kill and in this case so brutally and in sucha barbaric way too.

That is why I can take on board Jack's statement that they cannot be wired up right in the first place.
In my view too that's likely, certainly in most cases anyway.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

So many questions and so few answers as to this problem and as you say if the mind was rational how could they be made to kill and in this case so brutally and in sucha barbaric way too.

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts"), millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores .....

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Omah

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts", millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores .....

I am only asking the question Omah not stating anything as a fact.

Also while I accept your post above being accurate which it is.
I myself,speaking for myself, see a difference of people killing each other who are in mutually declared world wars armed against each other as opposed to the brutal barbaric murder of someone,even a serving Soldier, just walking in a street unarmed.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am only asking the question Omah not stating anything as a fact.

Also while I accept your post above being accurate which it is.
I myself,speaking for myself, see a difference of people killing each other who are in mutually declared world wars armed against each other as opposed to the brutal barbaric murder of someone,even a serving Soldier, just walking in a street unarmed.

That's exactly the sort of thing that elements of "Dad's Army", which as you know, was made up of butchers, bankers and boys, were trained to do should this country be invaded - they would retreat to underground bunkers then emerge at night to cause mayhem amongst the invaders, killing brutally, barbarically and every other way - the life span of these previously "rationally-minded" men was estimated as a maximum of 2 weeks .....

Similarly, non-combatants, particularly women, were selected for the SOE, where they were trained in all the methods of killing serving soldiers, behind enemy lines, armed or not .....

Michael Adebolajo said he had carried out his attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.

No doubt a similar justification could have been used by the "civilians" of SOE - German soldiers are killing non-Germans every day, so we'll kill German soldiers any way we can - the knife, the garrotte, the bullet or the bomb .....

"War" is frequently just a matter of perception :

President John F. Kennedy , early 1961, when he secretly sent 400 Special Operations Forces-trained (Green Beret) soldiers to teach the South Vietnamese how to fight what was called counterinsurgency war against Communist guerrillas in South Vietnam.

When Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963, there were more than 16,000 U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam, and more than 100 Americans had been killed.

Kennedy's successor, Lyndon B. Johnson, in August 1964, secured from Congress a functional (not actual) declaration of war: the Tonkin Gulf Resolution.

Then, in February and March 1965, Johnson authorized the sustained bombing, by U.S. aircraft, of targets north of the 17th parallel, and on 8 March dispatched 3,500 Marines to South Vietnam. Legal declaration or no, the United States was now at war.

This was not a "mutually declared world war" .....

That was why I used the word "conflict" .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts"), millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores .....

That is not in even nearly the same context as is being discussed omah...

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That is not in even nearly the same context as is being discussed omah...

Of course it is ..... Some FMS seem to think that you have to be "mad" to kill .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Of course it is ..... Some FMS seem to think that you have to be "mad" to kill .....

You keep referring to 'dads army' and how it was routine to kill, I disagree there are soldiers now who are severely traumatised by having to kill, it is never something you 'just do'.
The recruitment of young men by hate clerics is nowhere near the same thing either.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You keep referring to 'dads army' and how it was routine to kill.

No, I don't .....

Where did I say "routine" .....