[Lauren]

Originally posted by Emilee
WOW! This is all interesting stuff.
The fact i don't undertsnad science Sucks a bit though. LOL
But i sort of undertsnad what you mean, So Humans and animals mutated (is that the right word?) from bacteria and behold! - here is the populated earth! absolutley extraordinary.

I think thats what I mean. LMAO, I'm really bad at science.

So DNA from bacteria can mutate (thus causing frame shift). This changes the tertiary structure of the protein and so the active site can no longer ... do something. I've totally confused myself haha!

Any scientists in here?

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Emilee

Really???? Never knew that! Thats amazing!
Thanks xxx. It makes more sense now.

This is not what evolution teaches. Ask any microbiologist and they will inform you that bacteria are complex organisms in their own right.

It is more accurate to say that all known Phyla have a common ancestor, assuming you go along with Biopoesis or Chemical Evolution, where chemicals and lightning create the first single celled organism.

The only problem with that scenario is that all attempts to create life have failed. Even the experiments of Doctor Uray and Miller in the 1950's where they ran an electrical spark through a number of simple gasses, like methane and amonia. All they got were amino acids in a trap. (In nature there are no convenient traps as it is an open system)

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Sticks

This is not what evolution teaches. Ask any microbiologist and they will inform you that bacteria are complex organisms in their own right.

It is more accurate to say that all known Phyla have a common ancestor, assuming you go along with Biopoesis or Chemical Evolution, where chemicals and lightning create the first single celled organism.

The only problem with that scenario is that all attempts to create life have failed. Even the experiments of Doctor Uray and Miller in the 1950's where they ran an electrical spark through a number of simple gasses, like methane and amonia. All they got were amino acids in a trap. (In nature there are no convenient traps as it is an open system)

Yet no attempt could create quite the atmosphere of the universe.
Henceforth the results from this experiment aren't quite valid.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Lauren

I think thats what I mean. LMAO, I'm really bad at science.

So DNA from bacteria can mutate (thus causing frame shift). This changes the tertiary structure of the protein and so the active site can no longer ... do something. I've totally confused myself haha!

Any scientists in here?

How about visiting this site as it has information about evolution.

The correct term would be evolved from the original single celled organism, repeat bacteria are already complex organisms.

My scientific discipline was physics, however here goes

Deoxyribonucleic acid stores information based on arrangements of many of the four different types amino acids in a long double helix. The amino acids are, Adenine, Guanine, Thymine and Cytosine.

DNA is a molecule that replicates, and in order to do this require s ribonucleic acid to create the copies. Sometimes in this copying a mistake occurs, sort of like when you are asked to hand copy a text from a book with fine print. These mistakes are what we call mutations.

All this is goes on in the nucleus of the cell, be it plant or annimal.

For more information on DNA

Now scale this up to an animal say, a mutation affects how the new animal turns out, and can impact on its chance of surviving to reproduce. Now there are three types of mutation, harmful, neutral and beneficial. Harmful mutations will mean that natural selection will remove that animal from the gene pool. Neutral mutations do nothing and "benficial" mutations will mean that the animal will survive to reporoduce and pass on the beneficial gene to another generation. So the theory goes.

The fly in the ointment is that we do not document good mutations in nature, only the harmful ones. Now there is the argument that bacterial resistance to antibiotics is a good example of good mutations, but this is caused by plasmids and is nothing to do with mutations.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Sticks

How about visiting this site as it has information about evolution.

The correct term would be evolved from the original single celled organism, repeat bacteria are already complex organisms.

My scientific discipline was physics, however here goes

Deoxyribonucleic acid stores information based on arrangements of many of the four different types amino acids in a long double helix. The amino acids are, Adenine, Guanine, Thymine and Cytosine.

DNA is a molecule that replicates, and in order to do this require s ribonucleic acid to create the copies. Sometimes in this copying a mistake occurs, sort of like when you are asked to hand copy a text from a book with fine print. These mistakes are what we call mutations.

All this is goes on in the nucleus of the cell, be it plant or annimal.

For more information on DNA

Now scale this up to an animal say, a mutation affects how the new animal turns out, and can impact on its chance of surviving to reproduce. Now there are three types of mutation, harmful, neutral and beneficial. Harmful mutations will mean that natural selection will remove that animal from the gene pool. Neutral mutations do nothing and "benficial" mutations will mean that the animal will survive to reporoduce and pass on the beneficial gene to another generation. So the theory goes.

The fly in the ointment is that we do not document good mutations in nature, only the harmful ones. Now there is the argument that bacterial resistance to antibiotics is a good example of good mutations, but this is caused by plasmids and is nothing to do with mutations.

Ah yeah, thanks for the links. I did all about that when I did my Biology A Level - I just lost a lot of it and needed reminding.

[Sophii3x]

Hmm..

There is no evidence whatsoever that God existed or created this world.
It's like a huge mystery

But I suppose I do belive in God
Because I was christened as a baby
And went to church every Sunday until about a year ago

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Sophii3x
And went to church every Sunday until about a year ago

So why did you stop going?

Was this Anglican or Catholic?

[Sophii3x]

Originally posted by Sticks

So why did you stop going?

Was this Anglican or Catholic?

It's a methodist church

It just got a bit boring for me, plus some stuck up girl in sunday school was mean to me

[Feral]

Originally posted by Sticks


The correct term would be evolved from the original single celled organism, repeat bacteria are already complex organisms.

My scientific discipline was physics, however here goes

Deoxyribonucleic acid stores information based on arrangements of many of the four different types amino acids in a long double helix. The amino acids are, Adenine, Guanine, Thymine and Cytosine.

DNA is a molecule that replicates, and in order to do this require s ribonucleic acid to create the copies. Sometimes in this copying a mistake occurs, sort of like when you are asked to hand copy a text from a book with fine print. These mistakes are what we call mutations.

All this is goes on in the nucleus of the cell, be it plant or annimal.

For more information on DNA

Now scale this up to an animal say, a mutation affects how the new animal turns out, and can impact on its chance of surviving to reproduce. Now there are three types of mutation, harmful, neutral and beneficial. Harmful mutations will mean that natural selection will remove that animal from the gene pool. Neutral mutations do nothing and "benficial" mutations will mean that the animal will survive to reporoduce and pass on the beneficial gene to another generation. So the theory goes.

The fly in the ointment is that we do not document good mutations in nature, only the harmful ones. Now there is the argument that bacterial resistance to antibiotics is a good example of good mutations, but this is caused by plasmids and is nothing to do with mutations.

I understood everything till the plasmids bit!!!!! Then my mutated brain went bang!!!!

[xGemmax]

I honestly dont have a clue. I used to go to church and believe in him, but i dont go anymore and im undecided. It seems impossible that he could..but when i think about it i think someone must have created the world! So im totally confused

[ttw]

I do not believe in god.

But religion is something that can be argued until both parties are blue in the face and yet still no conclusion will be reached.

What everyone believes is realistically an opinion. Certain opinions may be backed up by certain theories which may be convincing but still are not, like most things 100% valid.

There are so many different ways of looking at god and why he may or may not exist that I don't even know where to start by explaining why I do not.

One thing I really don't understand is, if god is so great and god is love, how someone who say spends there whole life doing something worth-while, always trying to help those in need, generally caring for the world they live in, yet if they don't believe in god they will still go to hell?

Yet someone who lives their life selfishly has more of a chance of going to heaven as they believe in him.

This to me sound doesn't sound like a loving god, this sounds like a jealous god, a god who wants everyone to do as he says and as he wants because he is on some major power-trip.

I respect everyones religions and beliefs, and there is some good that comes out of religion , it gives some people hope in times of need, gives people comfort when they have lost someone , puts people on the right track and helps them lead a better life or help others.

But it also creates a lot of evil and suffering.

[bonnie43uk]

whoopie .. another god non believer .. chalk it up! we're winning 13 v 11 in the poll!!!

yeah, i am in agreement with you ttw, ..the stuff about god in the old testament sends chills down your spine .. he comes across as an egotistical heartless nasty piece of work.

.. a bit like my boss at work.

[Bells]

I’ve had lots of ups and downs in terms of belief, times of really believing in God, times of ignoring the concept completely. I’ve always believed in the concept however, which is why I would say that I was previously agnostic. Now however I am truly confident that there is in fact a God. Think about it. We are powerless to things like death, natural disasters, all the amazing natural things in the world. Scientific occurrences that happen, even such as a baby being born and things happening amongst wildlife should open our eyes and make us realise that there are things completely out of our control, things that have been done without the need for mankind and therefore must have appeared from somewhere and by some sort of higher power, surely. I really could go on about this subject for hours. And one other fascinating thing to consider – an atom. It comprises of a centre sphere/force/attraction (the nucleus) and then surrounded in orbits by the electrons. And the atom is the smallest known particle, and is something that cannot be broken down any further in the world as we know it today. Does the structure and pattern remind you of anything else in our world? And then of anything else…? And then of anything else…?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by ice_maiden02
I’ve had lots of ups and downs in terms of belief, times of really believing in God, times of ignoring the concept completely. I’ve always believed in the concept however, which is why I would say that I was previously agnostic. Now however I am truly confident that there is in fact a God. Think about it. We are powerless to things like death, natural disasters, all the amazing natural things in the world. Scientific occurrences that happen, even such as a baby being born and things happening amongst wildlife should open our eyes and make us realise that there are things completely out of our control, things that have been done without the need for mankind and therefore must have appeared from somewhere and by some sort of higher power, surely. I really could go on about this subject for hours. And one other fascinating thing to consider – an atom. It comprises of a centre sphere/force/attraction (the nucleus) and then surrounded in orbits by the electrons. And the atom is the smallest known particle, and is something that cannot be broken down any further in the world as we know it today. Does the structure and pattern remind you of anything else in our world? And then of anything else…? And then of anything else…?

Last sentences pretty much sum it up.
The World is too much of a complex thing to speculate.

[Bells]

It really is. I find it fascinating.
I just feel as if the whole universe has been created as some sort of pretty pattern made by something beyond our comprehension, and we happen to live in it.
And our minds just aren't capable of comprehending it all. It's pretty much similar to the fact that the human mind can't understand the concept of nothingness (e.g. in space)... we feel as if it must be contained within something, it's hard to accept that it's just branches out into... nothing. Just space!

It truly is amazing, but for me personally I find my best option is to just remain in awe by it and not hurt my brain by trying to understand concepts that we perhaps won't know about until after death. You can search for extracts in holy books, and I noticed that some of them contain scientific facts which were only found out recently – obviously the people of hundreds and thousands of years ago would have had no idea! It’s little clues like these which should get people thinking and believing. It’s not like God’s just going to appear at your house one day and say, ‘I’m God. Believe in me.’ You have to search for the facts yourself, find the truth yourself, and it’s people like these who benefit from the peace within as a result. None of my family are really religious, and to be quite honest I’ve never been either, but discussing this in more depth has made me realise that I should be more accepting. This is why at this time in my life I do believe in God and trust all the hints and clues we do have on this world to keep us going.

[easypeasy]

science is increasingly begining to prove there is a force that binds everything together, i dont believe in a bearded old white bloke sat on a cloud but i do believe everything is operating to an intelligent beings masterplan.
Its proven our thoughts can influence the physical realm around us. water can be physically changed by human emotion.
http://www.whatthebleep.com/crystals/
Im also a fan of the book "the celestine prophecy" which has some very good insights into life and the documtory "what the bleep do we know" which uses quantum mechanics to show science and "god" can co-exist..

[Bells]

Haha, yeah. Fact is though - nobody mentioned God as a bearded old bloke?
I used to think that as a child though, it must be the way the concept's generally represented.
I just think of Him as being...a power, a force. That is God. It's beyond comprehension for the human mind in my view. We should aim to understand what we can and deduce conclusions from what evidence we have.
That's a really interesting link you posted as well easypeasy!

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by ice_maiden02
Haha, yeah. Fact is though - nobody mentioned God as a bearded old bloke?
I used to think that as a child though, it must be the way the concept's generally represented.
I just think of Him as being...a power, a force. That is God. It's beyond comprehension for the human mind in my view. We should aim to understand what we can and deduce conclusions from what evidence we have.
That's a really interesting link you posted as well easypeasy!

glad you like it ice maiden, guess its kind of appropriate to your username! hehe.
Ive remembered there is a childrens version of the book available for free download here....
http://www.thank-water.net/picture-b...ure%20Book.pdf
and its got some stunning and very thought provoking pics in it, I reccomend everybody to download it.
It shows we are connected to the universe and our thoughts can alter it far more than we can begin to realise.

[ttw]

I have a question for believers...

Why didn't the tigers eat the the rest of the animals on noah's ark?

And if adam and eve were the first ever people, and they had kids, and their kids? had kids?

Does that mean we are all mentally retarded, deformed inbreds??

And to me it just doesn't make sense, people say "this world is too amazing , god must have created it " but I have seen cookery books with more complex instructions then 'and god said let their be light, and it was so'(i know that may not be exact but it's something like that)

(I know it may sound like I am taking the piss but I am truley not I do respect that other people may be religious)

[Sophii3x]

Originally posted by ttw
And if adam and eve were the first ever people, and they had kids, and their kids? had kids?

That would mean that brothers and sisters would have had sex with each other. Ew

[Emilee]

Originally posted by Sophii3x

That would mean that brothers and sisters would have had sex with each other. Ew

OMG! Thats right! So does that mean we are all brothers and sisters? (cant get my head round the scale of this).

[Sophii3x]

Originally posted by Emilee

OMG! Thats right! So does that mean we are all brothers and sisters? (cant get my head round the scale of this).

Me neither
And if Adam & Eve were white how are there mixed races

Hmm this has got me thinking

[Sticks]

Originally posted by ttw
I have a question for believers...

Why didn't the tigers eat the the rest of the animals on noah's ark?

And if adam and eve were the first ever people, and they had kids, and their kids? had kids?

Two questions here

Item 1)
Meat eating is not authorised for people until after the flood waters have receded (See Genesis 9:3)

Item 2)
This one is usually phrased as where did Cain get his wife. Well according to the Bible, Adam and Eve had other Sons and Daughters (Genesis 5:4) and as Eve would be the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20) so Cain married his sister.

Now I have already seen the revulsion by Sophii3x at this, because this is technically incest.

Question, why is incest wrong

Simply because it will lock in genetic abnormalities. But roll time back to the Garden of Eden, when everything was perfect before the fall and then roll slightly forward. At that time there would have been little genetic mutations in the gene pool, so it would be perfectly safe for Cain to marry his sister.

As evidence that it was a while before incest would become a biological issue can be seen from this incident, whilst not sanctioned, there was nothing wrong with the children who were born.

Of course later as more mutations crept in, the rules were changed to how it is to day with a prohibition on incest.

[ttw]

Originally posted by Sticks

Two questions here

Item 1)
Meat eating is not authorised for people until after the flood waters have receded (See Genesis 9:3)

I meant why didn't like, the lions eat the zebras??

EDIT: Thanks for the whole "incest" explanation (although my reasons for not believing go abit deeper than that lol)

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by Sophii3x

That would mean that brothers and sisters would have had sex with each other. Ew

thats nothing, if you believe Darwins "theory of evolution" you believe that early man/woman had sex with chimps.........
http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...545394809.html