[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

How do you know he wasn't playing? He's on national telly! He was playing, and when it suits everyone's perception of him/men in general, he has suddenly turned into a monster and is no longer playing, although his reaction to everthing else afterwards is one of true surprise. He AND Hazel, are clearly aroused by aggression in sex, and chose to reenact on national television acts that are very uncomfortable for others and too close to the bone for TV, but which are not criminal amongst a consenting adult couple. Cue pitchforks and Hazel pretending the aggression was out of nowhere. One phrase rings repeatedly "Go for it". She clearly never encouraged him.

Did you watch the live feed. The full event in context?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Im_Juz_ChiLLin

Hazel should also have been chucked out i agree both sexes should be treated equally so in that regard chuck hazel out as well !!!

That wouldn't be equal though because their actions weren't "equal".

[Jords]

Are you male or female?

[Im_Juz_ChiLLin]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

That wouldn't be equal though because their actions weren't "equal".

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

[Emmyasdfghjkl]

shes getting the blame for what happened on twitter, but the only people defending that asshole of a man is young teenage girls who for some dumb reason, aka because they think hes hot, think he did nothing wrong, its disturbing.

[Kizzy]

It is... that is the best word to describe the whole sorry event... disturbing.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

He's always been well-built. Not his fault. He asked if he should get aggressive, explaining he'd never actually hit her and she sad "Go for it". His roleplay may have been edgy, but how do you explain him requesting her permission and her saying "go for it". Those are surely unfamiliar elements in real-life sexual assault.

"Not his fault" - says it all really.

Do you know what is familiar in most cases of real life sexual assualt? The man saying that she was "asking for it", that she was dressed in a short skirt, that she was flirting with him.

But Im sure that daley, if not surrounded by cameras and security guards, would have stopped right there. Im sure the coking and headbutt montions were just for "fun".

After all, its not his fault....

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Did you watch the live feed. The full event in context?

Yep, he's an idiot, she's trying to snag Femme Fatale BB2013. She's continuously
told him she likes the alpha male role, batted her eyes in the shower wittering on about "no man's ever talked to me like that?", smiled at him invitingly when he asks "what's different between me and all the other men out there", pretty much drawing a huge cross on her FuFu with an arrow labelled "To the neanderthal victor, the spoils." She then starts a playfight, says "Go for it" when he asks if she wants him to get aggressive (if I remember correctly, he reiterates that although he won't be physically violent, it would likely scare her), talks of finishing him off quicker (sexual reference for the prudes out there) in the midst of their roleplay, and then says that she's surprised he was aggressive. He acted like an idiot, ruining his image forever in the hope of impressing/arousng her, but she was not wholly innocent. They may have different sexual limits and she may have actually been scared by his intensity, but he clearly never meant her any harm. Both idiots for trying something like that when they don't really know/trust each other and are being watched by their families/other halves and the rest of the world (that watches C5).

[optimisticcynic]

[QUOTE=kefln;6172934]"Not his fault" - says it all really.

Do you know what is familiar in most cases of real life sexual assualt? The man saying that she was "asking for it", that she was dressed in a short skirt, that she was flirting with him.

But Im sure that daley, if not surrounded by cameras and security guards, would have stopped right there. Im sure the coking and headbutt montions were just for "fun".

After all, its not his fault....[/QUOTE"

Not his fault" referred to his size and build, but you're clearly on a mission here. You've still avoided providing any explanation as to why he sought permission and guaranteed her safety prior to the roleplay, and have launched into unrelated claims re skirt length and the like. If he didn't care and was in some sex/power-fuelled haze, why would he explain what he was going to do and check to see she'd be ok beforehand?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Im_Juz_ChiLLin

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

I never said two wrongs make a right, I said his wrongs went way beyond hers in that one incident.

If you say her hitting a man bigger than her with a pillow is on par with him pinning her to the bed, grabbing her throat saying she should respect him because he'll get scary and "nut" her then that is disturbing.

[Maneki-neko]

Originally Posted by Im_Juz_ChiLLin

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

Lets not try and pretend that putting your hands around somebody's neck and saying "I'm gonna nut you one" is the same as pulling somebody's pants down.

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Maneki-neko

Lets not try and pretend that putting your hands around somebody's neck and saying "I'm gonna nut you one" is the same as pulling somebody's pants down.

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right?

[Indy]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right?

She did no such thing, and it's obvious the moment she sits up and talks back to him again, she has NO idea he's being serious, and it dawns on him that she has no idea he's being serious, which only infuriates him more. He was trying to discipline her and put her in her place, and she thought it was more flirting.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right?

All-round double standards. Daley's an idiot. I won't miss him. But I honestly believe he was role-playing and would never have hurt Hazel. He's a control freak but so are many women, who dominate their own relationships. Not all control-freaks are abusive.
To all the histrionic flag wavers,
1. Can you be 100% sure that Daley was not role-playing?
2. How do you explain him calmly and repeatedly asking if he could pretend to be aggresssive whilst reassuring Hazel that he would never hit her, if he was in a rage-filled haze?
3. Were they not both to blame for attempting sexual roleplay, when their pretence that their relationship was platonic completely prevented them from setting ground rules about what they were each comfortable with, especially as they do not properly know each other.

I feel they should both be out or both be warned about their insensitive use of an emotionally charged scenario which likely caused great offence to victims of assault and the general public. Their blatant denial of the fact they were roleplaying worsened things for Daley as he tried to pretend he still wasn't cheating on his girlfriend. "We got kinky, and misinterpreted each others' signals. We've chatted and all is resolved."

[Indy]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

All-round double standards. Daley's an idiot. I won't miss him. But I honestly believe he was role-playing and would never have hurt Hazel. He's a control freak but so are many women, who dominate their own relationships. Not all control-freaks are abusive.
To all the histrionic flag wavers,
1. Can you be 100% sure that Daley was not role-playing?
2. How do you explain him calmly and repeatedly asking if he could pretend to be aggresssive whilst reassuring Hazel that he would never hit her, if he was in a rage-filled haze?
3. Were they not both to blame for attempting sexual roleplay, when their pretence that their relationship was platonic completely prevented them from setting ground rules about what they were each comfortable with, especially as they do not properly know each other.

I feel they should both be out or both be warned about their insensitive use of an emotionally charged scenario which likely caused great offence to victims of assault and the general public. Their blatant denial of the fact they were roleplaying worsened things for Daley as he tried to pretend he still wasn't cheating on his girlfriend. "We got kinky, and misinterpreted each others' signals. We've chatted and all is resolved."

1. the half hour of screaming that went on before she went to bed that didn't make it into the highlight show but was on the feed

2. because many abusers go out of their way to excuse their behavior, he was planning to have a go at her when she went in to use the bathroom and left again, long before the fight, and he said thing out loud to give himself an excuse

3. as I've already stated, SHE thought it was a game, and there's a single moment where it becomes clear to him she's not taking him seriously. It's when she sits up and says she could outdo him, she's talking sex, he's talking violence, and she still hasn't figured it out. At that point he becomes more upset, starts with the harsh whisper and forces her down to "put her in her place".

[Kizzy]

He wanted her to do what he wanted plain and simple, he resented charlie chatting to her in the garden as she was in there for his entertainment only....
He may have felt humiliated at her pulling his shorts but I didn't hear that many calling for Denise Welsh removed when she did it?
That to me is irrelevant as he was laughing at that point, it was after he became intimidating.
She went along with the 'tough' act... but it wasn't an act.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Indy

1. the half hour of screaming that went on before she went to bed that didn't make it into the highlight show but was on the feed

2. because many abusers go out of their way to excuse their behavior, he was planning to have a go at her when she went in to use the bathroom and left again, long before the fight, and he said thing out loud to give himself an excuse

3. as I've already stated, SHE thought it was a game, and there's a single moment where it becomes clear to him she's not taking him seriously. It's when she sits up and says she could outdo him, she's talking sex, he's talking violence, and she still hasn't figured it out. At that point he becomes more upset, starts with the harsh whisper and forces her down to "put her in her place".

1. Couples argue. Couples then have make-up sex. Their roleplay was crappy sublimation of this sexual energy.

2. Unlikely. He was trying (in his simplistic code) to set ground rules for stepping up their roleplay, however his attempt at getting away with cheating precluded him saying "will it turn you on if I pretend to get rough with you. I promise I won't actually hurt you" or even "do you want me to get rough, maybe even choke you a bit" was limited to "I'm scary" and she stupidly, probably thinking he'd tickle her or pin her down as he nibbled her neck playfully, said "Go for it". Her expectation was a long way off from his.

3. He's reached level 7 of his sexual aggression repertoire and she tries to sexually intimidate him, gesturing as though to headbutt him as she sits up. She then states she will "finish him off quickly", sexual reward for aggressive behaviour, so he ramps his efforts up to level 10, thinking this is what she desires. Miscommunication, still no intent to actually harm, but a very offended BB, a slightly perturbed Hazel, and a completely unaware Daley.

[Indy]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

1. Couples argue. Couples then have make-up sex. Their roleplay was crappy sublimation of this sexual energy.

2. Unlikely. He was trying (in his simplistic code) to set ground rules for stepping up their roleplay, however his attempt at getting away with cheating precluded him saying "will it turn you on if I pretend to get rough with you. I promise I won't actually hurt you" or even "do you want me to get rough, maybe even choke you a bit" was limited to "I'm scary" and she stupidly, probably thinking he'd tickle her or pin her down as he nibbled her neck playfully, said "Go for it". Her expectation was a long way off from his.

3. He's reached level 7 of his sexual aggression repertoire and she tries to sexually intimidate him, gesturing as though to headbutt him as she sits up. She then states she will "finish him off quickly", sexual reward for aggressive behaviour, so he ramps his efforts up to level 10, thinking this is what she desires. Miscommunication, still no intent to actually harm, but a very offended BB, a slightly perturbed Hazel, and a completely unaware Daley.

How did you manage to type all of that with a straight face?

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Indy

How did you manage to type all of that with a straight face?

Big Brother is like a giant Rorschach test and forum's like this are simply a place where people post and repost their interpretation of the ink splodges, adamant that their own opinon is right, when in fact we see only what our own experiences and view of the world allow us to see. Just remembered why debate on this site is futile, though noone's fault. Will probably still be back soon enough.