[Z]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23448722

The sudden growth of China as a world economic power has alarmed a great many people in the West. For The Editors, a programme which sets out to ask challenging questions, I decided to find out whether China is the West's friend, or its enemy.

People worry that China, which is still notionally Marxist-Leninist, will use its huge economic power to threaten liberal Western values.

China certainly offers lavish support for systems in Africa, Asia and Latin America which the West regards with distaste.

Western governments and environmental agencies are worried that China is hoovering up the natural resources of countries across four continents.

American and European intelligence agencies have often accused China of breaking into the communications of corporations and governments (a charge which has, of course, been seriously weakened by the revelations of the American defector Edward Snowden about British and American electronic surveillance).

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The Editors
In the past couple of weeks the new leadership in China, headed by President Xi Jinping, has been harassing its own citizens who have been demanding greater personal freedom.

It all seems, from the Western viewpoint, to add up to a disturbing pattern.

But is it a pattern which the new leaders in Beijing recognise? Do they see themselves as being in an inevitable struggle with the West and its values?

Some months ago, with this programme in mind, I applied through the usual channels for an interview with a senior Chinese official on the subject of China's position in the world.

You might think it was a normal enough request. The BBC, like every other major news organisation, interviews senior politicians and officials right around the world every day of the year.

Not, however, in China. Sometimes Chinese ambassadors and senior embassy officials based in London have accepted invitations to speak on the BBC's airwaves, and acquitted themselves well.

But in Beijing the BBC has not been given a political interview with a senior official for at least 20 years, and probably for a long time before that.

China often blacks out BBC broadcasts and online reporting - something that very rarely happens anywhere else nowadays, apart from a few countries like Iran.

Yet it became clear, from the moment our interview request went in, that we would be able to interview someone senior. It turned out to be Hong Lei, deputy director-general in the foreign ministry.


Hong Lei gave a careful answer when asked about relations with the UK It was all the more surprising, since the Chinese government was infuriated by the decision by Britain's David Cameron to meet the Dalai Lama in early May. There were warnings that British-Chinese relations would be put in the deep freeze.

Yet our interview went ahead in an atmosphere of remarkable friendliness and hospitality. The filming was followed by an excellent banquet for my colleagues and me, and I was also given an off-the-record briefing with an even more senior official, to make certain I got the message.

And the message was this: China regards it as essential for its continuing economic and political development to keep good relations with the West.

It may be that the new leadership feels it wants to build up a parallel relationship with Europe, and especially Britain, to counterbalance its often difficult links with America.


China had been unhappy about David Cameron's meeting with the Dalai Lama in 2012 So, I suggested to Hong Lei, all this must mean that the relationship with Britain was back on course, after the freeze which followed the Cameron-Dalai Lama meeting.

But here in China, top officials dislike answering blunt questions openly. The official reply, as recorded by our cameras, was careful and studiedly imprecise.

Nevertheless, a senior figure put it to me in the clearest English, off the record: "We have a new start in our bilateral relationship."

Is this simply another diplomatic manoeuvre? Possibly, but I rather doubt it. The new president, Xi Jinping, knows that China faces real economic problems, and that economic problems could possibly bring widespread disorder or even a challenge to the political integrity of China.

Trade wars and political tensions with a West which is still suffering serious economic difficulties will not help China - on the contrary.

Two interesting phrases cropped up in my interview with Mr Hong. One was "the Chinese dream," an echo of "the American dream," meaning of course the hope, and perhaps the right, of ordinary people to improve their lives far beyond previous levels.

The other was "a win-win result". That means that if China and the West get on well, both will benefit hugely.

In the specific case of relations with Britain, China is willing to forgive and forget the Cameron-Dalai Lama meeting. The message was, there are wider issues which are more important.

By choosing an organisation with which China has had its difficulties in the past to make its point about better relations, the Chinese leadership was demonstrating in a graphic, incontestable way that it meant what it said.

And what it meant was this: under its new leadership, China regards itself as the West's friend.

Not its foe.

Reading this made me wonder if David Cameron's porn crusade and usage of a Chinese company is in some way linked to pissing them off by meeting with the Dalai Lama and so subsequently pandering to the Chinese to restore good relations with them... perhaps looking into it too deeply but seems an awful lot like Britain's in a tug of war between China and the USA and it's trying to maintain relations with both.

[arista]

We are Customers of China.


All parts for Industry are from China

Life In The Fast Lane

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23448722



Reading this made me wonder if David Cameron's porn crusade and usage of a Chinese company is in some way linked to pissing them off by meeting with the Dalai Lama and so subsequently pandering to the Chinese to restore good relations with them... perhaps looking into it too deeply but seems an awful lot like Britain's in a tug of war between China and the USA and it's trying to maintain relations with both.

I get the impression this may be an act of appeasement too, by making this change he's pandering to someone not sure who.
I know that the premise is it's the protect children and entrap predators, but I'm wary .... The tories rarely do anything for the greater good.

[Z]

I don't think of David Cameron as a strong leader, I think he's a bumbling fool haphazardly trying to keep plates spinning and hasn't been able to do anything useful in his time in office (or perhaps isn't capable of it)

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zee

I don't think of David Cameron as a strong leader, I think he's a bumbling fool haphazardly trying to keep plates spinning and hasn't been able to do anything useful in his time in office (or perhaps isn't capable of it)

He is better than Gordon Brown

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

He is better than Gordon Brown

Agreed. Gordon Brown was a great Chancellor of the Exchequer but he was left with a crap playing field once Tony Blair had left office and aside from that uphill struggle he faced, he just wasn't very good at leading the country.

[Kizzy]

He seems to be making as many changes as he can, as quickly as he possibly can....
The most telling for me was the reduction in the return for the feed-in tariff on solar panels, that would have loosened the stranglehold the energy companies have, though seemingly nobody cottoned on and he got away with that scott free.
The worrying thing is my guess is all the changes he is making are not for the benefit of the voters but investors, cash for questions, U turns, and changes in employment laws.
What is his true intention?

[SurfersCreed]

Having lived in China for several years ( teaching) I am convinced that like so much in China, it's "economic strength" is a facade.
The cracks have been showing for several years, but if you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed a barely concealed panic in China's Communist Party this year.
When the smoke & mirrors fail and it's economy collapses, it WON'T be like Japan in the 90's. Japan was a stable and developed democracy when it's economy ground to a halt.
Japan could survive 20 years of economic stagnation because of this.
China on the other hand, is still essentially a 3rd World (75% of its population still live in rural poverty) one party system. This leaves it far more vulnerable to political collapse and social chaos.
I'm afraid this is going to happen within the next decade.

[arista]

Originally Posted by SurfersCreed

Having lived in China for several years ( teaching) I am convinced that like so much in China, it's "economic strength" is a facade.
The cracks have been showing for several years, but if you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed a barely concealed panic in China's Communist Party this year.
When the smoke & mirrors fail and it's economy collapses, it WON'T be like Japan in the 90's. Japan was a stable and developed democracy when it's economy ground to a halt.
Japan could survive 20 years of economic stagnation because of this.
China on the other hand, is still essentially a 3rd World (75% of its population still live in rural poverty) one party system. This leaves it far more vulnerable to political collapse and social chaos.
I'm afraid this is going to happen within the next decade.

Yes the Cogs are Turning in Vietnam and other nations now.
Japan's Pioneer Electronics , for example,moved out of china
to other nations near it,
same HiTech factory.

Originally Posted by SurfersCreed

Having lived in China for several years ( teaching) I am convinced that like so much in China, it's "economic strength" is a facade.
The cracks have been showing for several years, but if you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed a barely concealed panic in China's Communist Party this year.
When the smoke & mirrors fail and it's economy collapses, it WON'T be like Japan in the 90's. Japan was a stable and developed democracy when it's economy ground to a halt.
Japan could survive 20 years of economic stagnation because of this.
China on the other hand, is still essentially a 3rd World (75% of its population still live in rural poverty) one party system. This leaves it far more vulnerable to political collapse and social chaos.
I'm afraid this is going to happen within the next decade.

I really disagree with this. They have such economic strength purely for the reasons you believe them to be a facade - when your economy is based on building things cheaply, and paying next to nothing to people to do this, then it really helps if 75% of your population is rural poor.

China is in no way heading for a crash, and if by some miracle they do, then the impact on the west will be far in excess of anything they suffer. At some point in the distant future China will recalibrate as the work force (over generations) begins to claw some power back, but this is a long process.

[Z]

Thought it was an interesting article at any rate and it provides more information than the usual panic-about-China pieces that appear from time to time.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I really disagree with this. They have such economic strength purely for the reasons you believe them to be a facade - when your economy is based on building things cheaply, and paying next to nothing to people to do this, then it really helps if 75% of your population is rural poor.

China is in no way heading for a crash, and if by some miracle they do, then the impact on the west will be far in excess of anything they suffer. At some point in the distant future China will recalibrate as the work force (over generations) begins to claw some power back, but this is a long process.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-of-China.html
Manufacturing is coming back, reshoring is the new offshoring.

[Nedusa]

They are an economic friend. !!!!