[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Buff-lite-skin-chic

u are watching the wrong show then, love! this show is all about playing the game well, it dont matter if u play it dirty or clean as long as u play good like makosi has! whats this rubbish bout someone genuine and truthful to win, havent u noticed the winner of that would have been science the great maybe u should watch something like i dont know countdown or call my bluff!

Just a reminder that we are here to talk about the HMs not about other members of this forum - everyone has an opinion and has the right to have it respected

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Skavau

So being a liar, having lose morals, being self-obsessive, arrogant and full of oneself are positive things when it comes to winning? Really?

If the British Public let Makosi win, then in a sense they will be total hypocrites in the fact that throughout this series, the main reason for voting people out has been: lieing, self-obsessive, bitching, bullying.. etc.

Why is Makosi different? I expect if Maxwell was still here all of the Makosi fans would be trying to slate him for bullying, lieing and the like.

Personally, I believe someone genuine and truthful needs to win.

Thats an interesting opinion, and as it was my post you quoted, I should be decent enough to give you a response.

Firstly, I'm not gonna justify that rubbish about Maxwell, he's not in so there's no point speculating about what would be said about him. In his credit, while there were plenty of things you could criticise Maxwell for, lying wasn't one of them. I'm guessing you're a Maxwell fan, which is why I'm surprised you criticise people who are smug, arrogant and full of themselves. Maxwell (along with his mistress Saskia) were convinced they had this show sewn up as far back as week 4. Thats one reason why they left, the other being that Maxwell was an aggressive bully who physically threatened people. Damn, I said I didn't want to get on to Maxwell and yet here I am.... anyway back to Makosi.

You ask an interesting question: Why is Makosi different. I can't answer that except to say that she is. If the public vote for her to win they probably will be hyprocrites, but thats not my problem or fault. I have little enough respect for the GB public as it is. They seem to apply very high standards to housemates, which they themselves could never actually live up to in real life. If all the people who complain about housemates bitching or being two-faced actually lived up to the standards they expect from housemates, the country would be in uproar. The public seem to expect housemates to be totally and brutally honest, yet it's impossible to live like that. Imagine if when Kinga walked in the house, Makosi went right up to her and said "S**t, I never expected to see you again after I evicted you from the secret garden. By the way you're a big fat tart who irritates me by just being in the same room as me" She'd be telling the truth, but you really think there'd be a load of people on here saying how wonderful Makosi was for not being two-faced or being a liar. I don't think so, we'd be getting more posts about what a horrible bully she is. Hell, the most honest and non two-faced housemate was evicted by the GB public, Science has actually come the closest to living up to these impossibly high standards that the idiotic public set. And they still evicted him! So please don't get me started on the GB public, bunch of morons if their voting is anything to go by this year. Churchill said something about the greatest argument against having a democratic system is the people themselves.

And finally, after my very long rant, you say you want someone genuine and truthful to win. Fair enough, thats not what I look for in a winner but hey, each to their own. But consider this; if Makosi is genuinely and truthfully an arrogant, lying, two-faced, self obsessed bitch, then doesn't she fit your criteria? If she is simply being herself, doesn't that mean following your criteria that she should win? If she is being genuine and truthful to herself shouldn't you be picking the phone up right now to vote for her?

The number to vote for her to win is in my sig below. We thank you for your vote!

[Kore]

look mat my sig.

thankyou.

[Skavau]

Firstly, I'm not going to justify that rubbish about Maxwell, he's not in so there's no point speculating about what would be said about him. In his credit, while there were plenty of things you could criticise Maxwell for, lying wasn't one of them. I'm guessing you're a Maxwell fan, which is why I'm surprised you criticise people who are smug, arrogant and full of themselves. Maxwell (along with his mistress Saskia) were convinced they had this show sewn up as far back as week 4. Thats one reason why they left, the other being that Maxwell was an aggressive bully who physically threatened people. Damn, I said I didn't want to get on to Maxwell and yet here I am.... anyway back to Makosi.

Actually I'm not a Maxwell fan. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. Maxwell was of course a great entertainer for the public and did a lot more than any of the final five have done.

The reason, however that he was argubly voted out was that he was too full of himself, too aggressive and generally the public didn't see him as a very nice person.

The Makosi fans here are willing to admit that Makosi has lied, backstabbed, is self-obessive, is a drama queen.. etc, and I ask those very same fans who voted to evict Maxwell - why do you not apply the same logic to Makosi? Why do you vote for Makosi to win for the same reasons you evicted Maxwell?

You ask an interesting question: Why is Makosi different. I can't answer that except to say that she is. If the public vote for her to win they probably will be hyprocrites, but thats not my problem or fault. I have little enough respect for the GB public as it is. They seem to apply very high standards to housemates, which they themselves could never actually live up to in real life. If all the people who complain about housemates bitching or being two-faced actually lived up to the standards they expect from housemates, the country would be in uproar. The public seem to expect housemates to be totally and brutally honest, yet it's impossible to live like that. Imagine if when Kinga walked in the house, Makosi went right up to her and said "S**t, I never expected to see you again after I evicted you from the secret garden. By the way you're a big fat tart who irritates me by just being in the same room as me" She'd be telling the truth, but you really think there'd be a load of people on here saying how wonderful Makosi was for not being two-faced or being a liar. I don't think so, we'd be getting more posts about what a horrible bully she is. Hell, the most honest and non two-faced housemate was evicted by the GB public, Science has actually come the closest to living up to these impossibly high standards that the idiotic public set. And they still evicted him! So please don't get me started on the GB public, bunch of morons if their voting is anything to go by this year. Churchill said something about the greatest argument against having a democratic system is the people themselves.

I agree, the British Public Voting this year has been awful. The public do set high expectations about people and do set unusually odd expectations and they aren't consistant with their expectations and they will let their favourite character get away with anything and critisize the characters they hate for doing things that their character does anyway. I agree entirely. This is the thing I have with Makosi fans, the fact that they support Makosi for lieing and being self-obsessive but they criticize other housemates for the exact same thing.

I however run on a consistant ideology that I like honest and different housemates. From the start I liked Mary, Makosi and Science. Unfortunately, throughout time Mary and Science were evicted and I went off Makosi after her secret missions.

For me, the only genuine housemates in there that meets my standards are Eugene and Anthony. I'm sure all of them are nice people in real life and I respect them for that. But based on their actions in the house, I'd rather Eugene or Anthony to win.

And finally, after my very long rant, you say you want someone genuine and truthful to win. Fair enough, thats not what I look for in a winner but hey, each to their own. But consider this; if Makosi is genuinely and truthfully an arrogant, lying, two-faced, self obsessed bitch, then doesn't she fit your criteria? If she is simply being herself, doesn't that mean following your criteria that she should win? If she is being genuine and truthful to herself shouldn't you be picking the phone up right now to vote for her?

But based on that logic, could they not all be truthful and genuine? Why isn't Craig, Anthony, Eugene or Kinga truthful for example? I dislike the way Makosi is playing the game and I don't like who she is or trying to be in the house. I dislike Craig for smothering Anthony and argubly preventing him in some sense from enjoying himself in the house. I think Kinga is a nice person too, but because she came in too late I don't think it's fair that she should win and I support Eugene as I think he's been consistent, quirky and a different slice of bread from the rest.

The number to vote for her to win is in my sig below. We thank you for your vote!

www.eugene2win.com

[Slartibartfast]

Sweet! A well reasoned and intelligent response, and after you had mispelt "lieing" a few times in your first post I thought I was dealing with some uneducated peasant (u can see why I liked Derek so much, sycophantic tendancies towards Eugene aside.)

Basically you've answered your first question:

The Makosi fans here are willing to admit that Makosi has lied, backstabbed, is self-obessive, is a drama queen.. etc, and I ask those very same fans who voted to evict Maxwell - why do you not apply the same logic to Makosi? Why do you vote for Makosi to win for the same reasons you evicted Maxwell?

when you said:

and they will let their favourite character get away with anything and critisize the characters they hate for doing things that their character does anyway. I agree entirely.

People have their faves, housemates who they bond with or identify with early on and who they stick by throughout the show. It was very evident on this board when Maxwell and Saskia were up for eviction. "Maskia" fans thought they could no wrong, and the rest thought they could do nothing right. It's now the reverse, and your point about Makosi fans sticking up for her applies equally to the Maxwell fans who stuck up for him but now seek to attack Makosi for doing exactly what Maxwell was accused of. (Although I disagree that Makosi is anywhere near as aggressive or nasty as Maxwell was when he lost his rag!)

And with the genuine and truthful thing, you've got my point exactly. What is genuine to one may seem like backstabbing etc to another. People go on about housemates being themselves, and yet maybe that housemate isn't all that nice a person. Craig for example, he seems to be being himself, it just that it turns out the "real" Craig is a needy, insecure person with a paranoia complex and a weird form of masochism were he seems to enjoy making himself suffer and cry so he can blame the rest of the world for his misery.

Obviously everyone watches BB and has a different opinion on how housemates should act and get on with each other. I've said in other posts, my perfect housemate would be one who either goes in and openly plays the game, lies, cheats and steals their way to the final, but maybe goes into the Diary Room and lets the public in on it so we can see them openly playing the other housemates. A bit like Vic last year, only better at it and with none of that jungle cats rubbish. Or, someone who goes in and pretends to be thick/shy/an idiot but turns out to play us all for fools. A bit like if it turns out Eugene is actually a "Kaiser Sozay" (anyone know how to spell Sozay from the Usual Suspects, I keep writing it but have no idea how to spell it) type character, who plays a shy, pratt-like bloke who actually turns out to be a criminal genius playing us all for fools!!

But I know other people have very different opinions on who should win, which is why BB is so diverse and varied in it's support. (Is there anyone still reading this post, probably not, there will be some idiot at the end who will not bother reading the whole post cos it's more than 3 lines long and post some inane rubbish about Get Makosi out, or Makosi to win.) I don't think it should be a popularity contest with the nicest housemate winning, but others do feel that that is an important quality in a winner, and these people seem to be in the majority cos it's either Eugene or Ant to win this year. IMO, this year Makosi is closest to my ideal housemate. Yeah, she annoys me at time especially when she cries when she gets dirty (she goes on about not liking weak people, yet cries at the slightest thing, looking for some attention and sympathy like a baby would) but out of a bad bunch she's my choice to win.

And just to finish, if (when) Makosi goes early, I'll be voting for Eugene to win, cos I'm still living in hope that he turns out to be a genius who's tricked us all!!!

OK, long ranting posts are over for me now, I need to go and rant on my resident football site about how those b******s Chelsea seem to have the league tied up again!! But it's good to see someone who reads a post thats longer than three lines and can respond intelligently. Well done (and now I'm just being a little patronising, aren't I? Man, I miss Derek...)

[Sunny_01]

I see there has been some real conversation here tonight - I like the points that you both make.

I liked Maxwell but do agree he had a tendancy to be too agressive towards other HMs, he could have easily gone on to win the show had he just been able to keep his temper at bay. Yes he was arrogant but arent all of the HMs. As for being vain well lets face it who isnt vain, I know I am at times. I disagree that Maxwell was a bully, I think it was more a matter of his inability to make his point without shouting. I dount he has been listened to much in life and has always had to shout to feel heard.

Makosi is totally different. I am not keen on her at all but do think that she has been a good HM. She has provided us with everything really, lets face it she has consistently given us all something to talk about. I dont agree that Makosi is a bully either, manipulative yes bully no.

[gcn]

Firstly, I'm not going to justify that rubbish about Maxwell, he's not in so there's no point speculating about what would be said about him. In his credit, while there were plenty of things you could criticise Maxwell for, lying wasn't one of them. I'm guessing you're a Maxwell fan, which is why I'm surprised you criticise people who are smug, arrogant and full of themselves. Maxwell (along with his mistress Saskia) were convinced they had this show sewn up as far back as week 4. Thats one reason why they left, the other being that Maxwell was an aggressive bully who physically threatened people. Damn, I said I didn't want to get on to Maxwell and yet here I am.... anyway back to Makosi.

You ask an interesting question: Why is Makosi different. I can't answer that except to say that she is. If the public vote for her to win they probably will be hyprocrites, but thats not my problem or fault. I have little enough respect for the GB public as it is. They seem to apply very high standards to housemates, which they themselves could never actually live up to in real life. If all the people who complain about housemates bitching or being two-faced actually lived up to the standards they expect from housemates, the country would be in uproar. The public seem to expect housemates to be totally and brutally honest, yet it's impossible to live like that. Imagine if when Kinga walked in the house, Makosi went right up to her and said "S**t, I never expected to see you again after I evicted you from the secret garden. By the way you're a big fat tart who irritates me by just being in the same room as me" She'd be telling the truth, but you really think there'd be a load of people on here saying how wonderful Makosi was for not being two-faced or being a liar. I don't think so, we'd be getting more posts about what a horrible bully she is. Hell, the most honest and non two-faced housemate was evicted by the GB public, Science has actually come the closest to living up to these impossibly high standards that the idiotic public set. And they still evicted him! So please don't get me started on the GB public, bunch of morons if their voting is anything to go by this year. Churchill said something about the greatest argument against having a democratic system is the people themselves.

And finally, after my very long rant, you say you want someone genuine and truthful to win. Fair enough, thats not what I look for in a winner but hey, each to their own. But consider this; if Makosi is genuinely and truthfully an arrogant, lying, two-faced, self obsessed bitch, then doesn't she fit your criteria? If she is simply being herself, doesn't that mean following your criteria that she should win? If she is being genuine and truthful to herself shouldn't you be picking the phone up right now to vote for her?

The number to vote for her to win is in my sig below. We thank you for your vote! [/quote]

[gcn]

completely agree..well said....!!!!

[Kore]

but it all comes down 2 one fact.

makosi is arrogant.



dont let borekosi win

[gcn]

i think if i was meant to hate makosi id have done so by now....perhaps after the pregnancy issue etc...but i still love her to bits regardless...COME ON MAKOSI..!!!!

[abbashop79]

I really don't like Makosi. I think she's a very cold person. Her voice sounds like she's sitting on a horse, talking down to everybody, the "peasants" on the ground. She really seems to have been brought up wrong. Maybe she needed more hugs....very sad.

Derek spoke down to people too, quite alot, but I actually would have to speak down to some people on there myself, so I can relate. Derek's voice was easier on my ears, and I feel he was quite true to himself.

Makosi, is a very confusing person for me, independent obviously because she hasnt genuinely stuck with anybody, for any length of time as far as I know.

[Wow_What_A_Show]

I know....im soooooo Ashamed that shes a local girl.
A horse???Lol!!!

[abbashop79]

I must add: I don't think she is a bully.

The Big Brother experience is "costing" every housemate, and Makosi is really not liking giving herself to the UK. Her delivery is always in the tone of, "Makosi is in control". She is not very sporting, and it's entertaining to watch the power struggle. (*Will Makosi be given new HAIR!?*)

Perhaps Makosi isn't like this when in the "real" world, but I'd sooner Kemal was there in the house instead of her.

[Wow_What_A_Show]

nite evryone!!!!!! x

[Gstar]

ughhhhhh I wish I was a member at this time, this thread is an interesting read

[Headie]

The time before the sassy but classy ones arrived

[Pete.]

Originally Posted by Hayden

The time before the sassy but classy ones arrived

[Kazanne]

Blimey,members who actually debated stuff,was a good read