[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thank you Caitlin. I had so many nice pleas from members asking me to reconsider, and I just thought to myself why should I let anyone hound me off here? Then, reading so many (untrue) anti-Christian hate posts just decided me to return.

I'm glad Livia's back too.

Take care. xxx

No surprise people wanted you back. Your previous post was excellent and very well expressed. Welcome back.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't hate any single religion, I hate the idea of organised religion and (like I've said numerous times...) it's dumb to highlight one religion as being more 'evil' or primative or controlling when all religions are equally primitive and controlling. Again, thinking that one religion is inherently better than another is foolish. They all preach hatred, they all have the same basic premise and methods of control. You are biased and ignorant if you think that Christianity is somehow better than the rest. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE OLD TESTAMENT? 'Biblical' isn't a term for 'some horrific bat**** crazy **** is going to go down' by chance....

Your post shows an incredible naivety and ignorance of the subject under discussion.

Christianity is of the New Testament - not the Old Testament.

Islam is both primitive and controlling, The Judeo Christian Bible is primitive but not controlling in the slightest.

The Quran preaches open-ended hatred and violence, The Judeo Christian Bible preaches neither.

Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not.

Please show me any evidence which substantiates the claims in your post.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

No surprise people wanted you back. Your previous post was excellent and very well expressed. Welcome back.

Thank you Sassysocks.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

First of all, Barack Hussein Obama being a Muslim would state that, but it is thinly disguised pro-Islamic propaganda and anti-Christian nonsense, because Christianity most definitely is a totally different religion to Islam.

What's more, Hussein Obama makes the same colossal error which you and others on this thread make, in being confused by just what Christianity is.

Christianity is a religion specifically based upon the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as attested in The New Testament, and Jesus Christ was a pacifist who taught Love, Understanding, Tolerance, Charity and advocated peace and forgiveness.

True Christians are those who put faith and trust in the New Testament and who believe in Jesus as ‘The Christ’ or Messiah, and who follow Christ’s teachings. Therefore true Christians who truly follow the teachings of Christ are also peace loving.

NOWHERE in the New Testament is there any incitement for followers to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers and I defy anyone on here to provide evidence to the contrary.

Even the violence within the Old Testament is solely bound by historical context and specific only to the era in which the text was written, as distinct from the open-ended commands throughout the Quran which compel faithful Muslims to to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers. These commands are not era specific, and have no predetermined time limit, so are as relevant and applicable for faithful Muslims today as they were to faithful Muslims in Muhammad's time. Which explains the demonic atrocities still being perpetrated in Allah's name after 1500 years.

The above is only one difference between Islam and Christianity, but there are other very real differences, far too numerous to expound upon here.

As for "better than" - whether we are specifically comparing the religions themselves, or their followers interpretation of The New Testament with the Quran, there really is no comparison, because the former is a religion based upon love, peace and tolerance, and the latter is one where 109 of its verses incite beheadings and dismemberment or other violence.

I feel this may be the reason why we do not see faithful Christians holding one freshly-severed innocent's head after another, or witness them coolly moving through school classrooms executing innocent children, setting terrified teachers ablaze, or chanting "Jesus" while they shoot yet more innocent victims in cold blood.

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.




.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Whether you support organised religion or not is hardly the issue. You were being challenged on your comparisons between present day Islamic religious doctrine still practicing opression and violence to historical Christian doctrine in an era when people knew no different. Today people do, even in Asia.

Maybe your comprehension skills are not as developed as you think they are and maybe you need to get over yourself.

It's less to do with Islam and more to do with Dictators using it to enforce their reign. The same thing could happen to any religion, you could get a Jewish, Christian, Hindu ETC group that gains some power and enforces it through the darkest parts of their religious text. You could take religion out of the Middle east and the same problems would still exist because it's less about religion and more about power and the means those who have it use to keep it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.

.

I am grateful for your comments Nedusa - It is members such as you who are the reason why I returned to this forum.

Thank you.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not.

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

I won't even deny that there are probably a greater number of Fundamentalist Islamic preachers than either of the others or that it's a more widespread issue, but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

Christian preachers do not preach this poison........Islam seems to be infiltrated with this radical twisted disease whereas rabbis im not so sure I don't follow Judaism as closely.....Christian churches are on the whole places of magnificent preachers and fantastic people doing good work ....when you take into account the billion plus Christians the amount of good work they do across the globe is astounding.....in charity work in caring in missionary work and voluntary is remarkable.........its just a shame other religions cannot be as forgiving and charitable as Christians but that will never be the case as there was only one Christ who was a magnificent example to all humanity

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry Dezzy, but I do read every post on every thread which I subscribe to, in the same way that I read and research, and cross check and cross reference, any subject on which I am interested in before I form an opinion, and therefore, when I do post an opinion it as near a 'qualified' opinion as possible.

Islam and Christianity are subjects of which I already have a considerable knowledge of - being both a Christian, and also interested in all religions since I was young - and my posts have nothing to do with being "self righteous" and being "self obsessed" or thinking that "everyone should kneel before" my "truth", but are to do with not allowing groundless attacks on Christianity to go unchallenged - especially when such attacks are cloaked in pseudo fact and ludicrous misconceptions.

I am also not dim, and able to perceive irrational anti-Christianity attacks no matter how expertly disguised among phrases such as "all religions", in the same manner that I cannot help but conclude from the preponderance of evidence, that whilst certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring.

It seems clear to me, that it is the Modus Operandi of certain members on here to post ill thought out, sweeping and presumptuous fallacies, then when rebutted by legitimate and reasoned counter responses, they resort to 4 reactions against those validly countering:

A) Insult
B) Ridicule
B) Ignore
C) Make false complaint to a Moderator.

The above is neither discussion, nor debate.

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

Christian preachers do not preach this poison........Islam seems to be infiltrated with this radical twisted disease whereas rabbis im not so sure I don't follow Judaism as closely.....Christian churches are on the whole places of magnificent preachers and fantastic people doing good work ....when you take into account the billion plus Christians the amount of good work they do across the globe is astounding.....in charity work in caring in missionary work and voluntary is remarkable.........its just a shame other religions cannot be as forgiving and charitable as Christians but that will never be the case as there was only one Christ who was a magnificent example to all humanity

Again - there are NO Christian churches preaching anything hateful? Not one? Utterly ridiculous

[Kizzy]

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again - there are NO Christian churches preaching anything hateful? Not one? Utterly ridiculous

None ive ever heard of or been to .......frankly ive heard more hate from you in this thread than I have in a lifetime of visiting the Christian churches where ive never ever heard 1 bigoted word in my life

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

I won't even deny that there are probably a greater number of Fundamentalist Islamic preachers than either of the others or that it's a more widespread issue, but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative.

In answer to your ridiculous and presumptuous claims which I have emboldened, I am not implying anything of the sort. Do not 'twist' my statements which are in print for all to see. If I had meant that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful I would have stated as much, and if I had meant that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative, I would have stated as much.

As for your other claims, I welcome you expounding upon them with suitable corroborating evidence.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

Hallelujah!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

Ah patronising?...

It makes sense if you think back to when I said all religions operate through a system of fear, for power and influence at their core... in that respect they're all the same.
If you don't do this, that will happen.

I am calm, I will explain... 'certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring'

I feel you are suggesting I am one of these members that you are opposed to, I take offence to the fact you are insinuating that as well as 'attacking' Christianity by not stating that I condemn terrorism as if it's some 'glaring' statement of some sort....Does everyone now have to state the obvious to appease you?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

In answer to your ridiculous and presumptuous claims which I have emboldened, I am not implying anything of the sort. Do not 'twist' my statements which are in print for all to see. If I had meant that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful I would have stated as much, and if I had meant that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative, I would have stated as much.

As for your other claims, I welcome you expounding upon them with suitable corroborating evidence.

Yes they are in print, they don't require any twisting, it is exactly what you said. Again:

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not.

It's a non-statement. Islamic Fundamentalist Imams preach violence and hatred. Jewish Fundamentalist Rabbis preach violence and hatred. Christian Fundamentalist preachers preach violence and hatred. Your statement was disingenuous because you compared fundamentalists from one religion to "normal" preachers of other religions. It's not a direct comparison. It's meaningless, and designed purely to cast some in a better light than others.

As for the second part, are you really asking me to back up / "prove" that there are Rabbis in Israel preaching hatred of Palestine, or that certain Bible-belt American preachers advocate violence against homosexuals? Are you trying to say that without proof, you think these claims are false? It's common knowledge, Kirk.

[kirklancaster]

I will answer you out of common courtesy despite your descent once more into 'Strawman' tactics.Here is what I actually stated:

"Originally Posted by kirklancaster - "Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not."

And here is what you dishonestly twist my statement into:

"but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative."


Now let's analyse what you are attempting to do:

I specify Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs. You turn my clear STATEMENT into your IMPLICATION without any genuine reason.

You turn my "ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST" in to your "MOST ISLAMIC PREACHERS" when that is CLEARLY NOT WHAT I WROTE.

In my opinion, most "Islamic preachers" are - like most Muslims - peace loving moderate people of faith. ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST PREACHERS are not.

You are deliberately TWISTING what I actually wrote, but when I accused you of such a practice you write:

"Yes they are in print, they don't require any twisting, it is exactly what you said."

Well, clearly, it is NOT EXACTLY WHAT I SAID - IS IT?

So please stop with the deceitful Strawman tactics because it just ruins threads. We have some seriously intelligent and knowledgeable members on here who shy away once you employ such tactics and it is not fair,not conducive to intelligent debate, and impoverishes the forum.

And as for:

"for the second part, are you really asking me to back up / "prove" that there are Rabbis in Israel preaching hatred of Palestine, or that certain Bible-belt American preachers advocate violence against homosexuals? Are you trying to say that without proof, you think these claims are false? It's common knowledge, Kirk."

Yes Toy Soldier, I am asking you to provide evidence for what you claim. You make so many 'sweeping claims' in your posts - all without genuine grounds - that I would like you to corroborate these particular claims.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I will answer you out of common courtesy despite your descent once more into 'Strawman' tactics.Here is what I actually stated:

"Originally Posted by kirklancaster - "Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not."

And here is what you dishonestly twist my statement into:

"but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative."


Now let's analyse what you are attempting to do:

I specify Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs. You turn my clear STATEMENT into your IMPLICATION without any genuine reason.

You turn my "ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST" in to your "MOST ISLAMIC PREACHERS" when that is CLEARLY NOT WHAT I WROTE.

In my opinion, most "Islamic preachers" are - like most Muslims - peace loving moderate people of faith. ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST PREACHERS are not.

You are deliberately TWISTING what I actually wrote, but when I accused you of such a practice you write:

"Yes they are in print, they don't require any twisting, it is exactly what you said."

Well, clearly, it is NOT EXACTLY WHAT I SAID - IS IT?

So please stop with the deceitful Strawman tactics because it just ruins threads. We have some seriously intelligent and knowledgeable members on here who shy away once you employ such tactics and it is not fair,not conducive to intelligent debate, and impoverishes the forum.

And as for:

"for the second part, are you really asking me to back up / "prove" that there are Rabbis in Israel preaching hatred of Palestine, or that certain Bible-belt American preachers advocate violence against homosexuals? Are you trying to say that without proof, you think these claims are false? It's common knowledge, Kirk."

Yes Toy Soldier, I am asking you to provide evidence for what you claim. You make so many 'sweeping claims' in your posts - all without genuine grounds - that I would like you to corroborate these particular claims.

I'm not buying it kirk, why would you compare Fundamentalist Islamic preachers to non-fundamentalist Christian and Jewish preachers? It's like comparing rabid dogs to normal cats and pointing out that the normal cats don't attack people. You are saying nothing about the normal dogs, or the rabid cats. It is a moot point. You deliberately compare the worst Islamic preachers to the normal everyday Jewish and Christian preachers. You completely overlook the normal Islamic preachers and the worst Jewish and Christian preachers, to make your point. Like I said, it is disingenuous.

Also, whilst you qualified the statement about Islamic preachers with "Fundamentalist", you offered no specifics for Priests, Vicars and Rabbis. You simply said outright that "they do not preach hatred", implying that *none* of them preach hatred, ever. Which is simply not true.

I don't believe for a second that you think it's true that every last rabbi and preacher is non-violent, that you believe there is not a single non-peaceful Jewish and Christian preacher in the world, without me "proving it". I think you know fine well that they exist. Making out that it must be "proven" can only be considered an attempt to disproportionately and with bias defend the faiths that you have deemed the "better ones". It's also massively offensive to the thousands of people who have been on the receiving end of Christian intolerance and the people who have been beaten and killed by what can only be described as Jewish jihadists in Israel.

However, quickly, here is a good one because it contains videos - first hand evidence - of hateful Christian preachers. Please watch the videos. I'm sure you will still, somehow, deny it:

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/0...-gay-violence/

As for hatred preached by Rabbis in Israel, kirk, I am not even for a second going to entertain the notion that you don't know about this. Seriously. It is a massive problem, it would take you 30 seconds to find thousands of articles on the issue. The US and even occasionally the Israeli government themselves have condemned these Jewish hate preachers. Trying to claim they don't exist is patently ridiculous.

However, here is a link to an article - which includes direct quotations - from a hateful Rabbi in the good old US of A.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/10/genoci...lanta-hashanah

I would also point out that the people who own and run this website are themselves Jewish.

[Josy]

Can we stick to discussing the topic of the thread and NOT other members please, this includes blanket statements like 'certain members' 'some members' and so on, it constantly turns into tit for tat sniping and then completely ruins the thread for others.

This goes for this thread and all of the other ones in this section.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes Happy America

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What evidence would that be, besides his middle name which is apparently so necessary to include?

I apologise for the delay in responding Matt, but I got drawn in elsewhere on here – unfortunately. This is going to be a long post , but could have been ten times longer because of the sheer weight of evidence that Obama is a Muslim. I have 28 pages on Obama and this very subject in my own files alone which are the result of researching and cross referencing internet articles, newspaper articles, and excerpts from 2 books (I’m currently writing a thriller novel ) I have found the usual articles which rebut some of which I post here, but after extensive past and recent cross checking, I'm inclined to believe this which I post.

Can I start with the name which is Obama’s:

HUSSEIN

This strictly Muslim name is reputedly unheard of prior to first being used by the prophet Muhammad when he named his grandson Husayn ibn Ali after claiming that he had been commanded to do so by the archangel Gabriel.

BACKGROUND
1) Obama was born a Muslim because his real father, Barack Obama Sr. was Muslim. So Obama was raised as a Muslim.

2)When Obama’s mother divorced Obama Sr, She married another Muslim - Lolo Soetoro. So Obama continued to be raised as a Muslim:

3) Obama's own half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng states: "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim."

4) In 1967 Obama’s family relocated to the predominantly Muslim country of Indonesia and Obama's first school was ‘Francis of Assisi’ a Catholic School which catered for other Faiths. Documents show that each student had to choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Barack Hussein Obama – now using the name Barry Soetoro – registered his faith as Muslim.

5)A former Indonesian classmate of Obama’s - Rony Amir - is on record as stating that; “All the relatives of Barry's (Obama’s alias) father were very devout Muslims" and describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."

6) Obama’s second school in Indonesia was the ‘Besuki’ Public School in Jakarta, where ‘Barry’ also registered his faith as Muslim.

7) Teachers and former classmates confirm that he enrolled as a Muslim.

8) As a Muslim pupil, Obama studied the Quran two hours every week.

9) In his autobiography, ‘Dreams of My Father’, Obama relates how he got into trouble for clowning around during “Koranic studies” confirming that he was a Muslim.

10) Nicholas D. Kristof of ‘The New York Times’ reports that Obama "recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them him with a “first-rate accent."

11) Obama's half-sister recalled that the family (including Obama) attended the mosque "for big communal events.

12) Obama’s childhood friends state that "Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque."

13) Not only is it on record that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." Zulfin Adi – an Indonesian Muslim friend of Obama’s states that Obama "was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong"

14) Indeed Matt, Obama himself has stated that while living in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he "didn't practice (Islam)" a statement which though designed to rebut claims that he is a Muslim, actually confirms that he is – practicing or not. (The claim that he is non-practicing is a lie anyway).

15) When questioned, Obama’s PR spokesperson went on record as saying that he couldn’t answer why Obama was listed as a Muslim at both his Indonesian schools and emphasised: . "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim."

16) However, when further pressed less than a couple of months later, the Obama PR Office “retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim." Again, this distinction actually confirms that he is a Muslim.

Matt, the evidence that Obama was born and raised a Muslim is irrefutable in my opinion, but it is the depths of his deceit in trying to conceal this fact, and the hypocrisy of cloaking his Islamic faith under Christianity which I find highly suspect and very sinister.

So let’s see what Obama himself says about his faith and see if it tallies with the truth above.

Here’s Barack Hussein Obama’s declarations prior to securing the presidency, where he denies being a Muslim, denies ever having been a Muslim, and repeatedly stresses what a devout Christian he is:

Lie No 1) Barak Obama December 2007:
"I've always been a Christian......... The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country [Kenya]. But I've never practiced Islam."

Lie No 2)Barak Obama February 2008:
"I have never been a Muslim. … other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for 4 years when I was a child [Indonesia, 1967-71] I have very little connection to the Islamic religion."

Lie No 3) 12th Nov 2008 - Obama’s Campaign Website when he was running for the presidency:
"Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim," and: "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian."

Lie No 4) 22nd Dec 2008 – When explaining his Muslim heritage: “My father was from Kenya, and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is he wasn't very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam. … For a while, I lived in Indonesia because my mother was teaching there. And that's a Muslim country. And I went to school. But I didn't practice.”

Now let’s just study the devout Christian image he projected during his 2008 Presidential Campaign as in this below taken from just one of his campaign leaflets:

“Guided by his Christian faith, Barack Obama is the leader we can trust....”

“Barak Obama: Committed Christian”

“I believe in the power of prayer”

“We do what we do because God is with us....

"When Moses was first called to lead his people to the promised land, he said, “I don’t think I can do it Lord, I don’t feel brave and courageous”. The Lord said, “I will be with you, I’ll show you what to do”

And then let’s weigh the above against his statements and actions concerning Christianity, since:

1) Prior to giving a televised speech from the ‘Gaston Hall’ in the Georgetown University, the White House requested the university to “cover over” a monogram symbolizing Jesus Christ’s name which would be in camera shot behind the President. “The Gold ‘IHS’ monogram inscribed on a pediment in the hall was covered over by a piece of black-painted plywood, and remained covered over the next day”.

Quotes By Barack Obama About Christianity and the Bible.

2) “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation”

3) “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.”

4) “Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith?”

5) “Even those who claim the Bible’s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages – the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ’s divinity – are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.”

6) “If all it took was someone proclaiming I believe Jesus Christ and that he died for my sins, and that was all there was to it, people wouldn’t have to keep coming to church, would they.”

And this last proves Obama’s lies that his mother (who was a ‘secular humanist) was a Christian and so he was “raised as a Christian” –

7) “I’ve said this before, and I know this raises questions in the minds of some evangelicals. I do not believe that my mother, who never formally embraced Christianity as far as I know … I do not believe she went to hell.”

OBAMA AND ISLAM
1) Obama is on record as stating that:” The Muslim call to prayer is one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset and recited the opening lines; ‘Allah is supreme.... I witness that there is no God but Allah’ in a perfect Arabic accent.

2) Obama personally raised nearly $1 million dollars and campaigned for a Kenyan President who had a written agreement with Islamic leaders pledging to convert Kenya to an Islamic State which bans Christianity.

3) Obama stated that the autobiography of infamous black Muslim activist Malcolm X “inspired him in his youth”.

4) Obama visited several mosques whilst on a political trip to Kenya but did not visit any of the many churches or even the National Temple.

5) Obama enjoyed a bigger increase in voter support in 2008 (compared to 2004) by Muslims than by any other voting group, including blacks; "Muslim turnout in the U.S. elections reached 95 percent, the highest Muslim turnout in U.S. history."

6) Obama rarely attends church or has church services in the White House and when ‘President-elect’ he never attended [Sunday] church services – a departure from the example of his two immediate predecessors.

7) At the G-20 summit in April 2009, Obama bowed deeply to Saudi King Abdullah, a Muslim who is also the 'Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques'. This caused an outrage because no other US President in history had ever displayed such obsequious deference to any foreign official, and Obama himself has never bowed to any other Royal Leaders. Obama later stated, "We have to change our behavior in showing the Muslim world greater respect".

8) In 2006, Obama gave an irreverent speech about using the Bible in public policy. “It resembled a stand-up comedy act, with Obama making fun of the books of the Torah, The Ten Commandments and The Sermon on The Mount, and other key Biblical passages.

9) On September 25, 2012, in his address to The United Nations General Assembly, Obama stated that: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam"

10) Obama's spiritual mentor of 20 years, Rev. J. Wright explained in an interview "that Barack Obama was steeped in Islam when he first met him," and said that he “made it comfortable” for Obama to accept Christianity without having renounce his Islamic background.” (something Obama was concerned about).

11) Obama selected Chuck Hagel – a former Republican senator “most sympathetic to Muslim positions in the Middle East” - to be Secretary of Defense despite intense objections by both political parties. The ‘Iranian State Press’ approved of his choice.

12) During a televised interview with George Stephanopoulos, whilst discussing whether John McCain's campaign has suggested that Obama is not a Christian, Obama committed a huge ‘faux pas’ when he said that:“John McCain had not talked about my Muslim faith” .Stephanopoulos, aware of this Freudian slip' and the potential outrage, then suggested that Obama change his answer to refer instead to "Christian faith."

13) In a recent speech on Islamic terrorism, Obama stated that: “ISIL is not 'Islamic.' No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state; it was formerly al Qaeda's affiliate in Iraq and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria's civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government nor by the people it subjugates."

14) “We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.”

15)“As a student of history, I also know civilisation’s debt to Islam.

16) “Islam has always been part of America”

17) “We will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities”.

18) “I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam.”

19)“Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism – it is an important part of promoting peace.”

20) “Throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.” (His he for real???)

22)“Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality.

23) The Holy Koran tells us, ‘O mankind! We have created you male and a female; and we have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.’”

24)“I look forward to hosting an after dinner celebrating Ramadan here at the White House later this week, and wish you a blessed month.”

25)“That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn’t. And I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.”

Transcript: President Obama's ISIS speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-HqHSkYG-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CseUglupmZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tKMiRxnRN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKeWwE0t7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yro63c7B7A

[the truth]

Great post there , incredibly detailed and serious food for thought.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

Great post there , incredibly detailed and serious food for thought.

Thank you Truth.