[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no but they were protecting their patch most likely. Its not the dogs fault we have domesticated them as their evolution is yet to catch up


Also its just a danger of living on a rough council Cork estate, ask Josy she will agree

look LT trying to make excuses for the dogs lol, animals are as vicious as humans, they just do it at a more basic level to humans

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I love cats. They are so much fun and are very smart. I miss mine.

Yes I love my cat too but believe me he does kill for fun

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes I love my cat too but believe me he does kill for fun

I'm an idiot - I forgot all the times my cat stalked birds and came in from outdoors with one in his mouth. Ditto field mice. I must be getting Alzheimer's.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

look LT trying to make excuses for the dogs lol, animals are as vicious as humans, they just do it at a more basic level to humans

Animals start each day with a do or die situation, find food or die or be food

humans do not for the most part

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I wasn't asking a rhetorical question, I suspected that we were, but did not know. I still don't, so maybe you can enlighten me?

Well Niamhs given a few examples: cats like to see killing things as like a game, a lot of animals will fight over mates, dogs can attack other dogs just to beat them. The animal world can be very brutal with animals killing each other just for the sake of it, there's no way we can see their interactions with each other as more civilised and harmonious than humans imo

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes I love my cat too but believe me he does kill for fun

make your killer cat wear this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...illing-5188627

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well Niamhs given a few examples: cats like to see killing things as like a game, a lot of animals will fight over mates, dogs can attack other dogs just to beat them. The animal world can be very brutal with animals killing each other just for the sake of it, there's no way we can see their interactions with each other as more civilised and harmonious than humans imo

I cede Matt, I forgot my own cat with field mice and birds.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Animals start each day with a do or die situation, find food or die or be food

humans do not for the most part

so what?

For the people who claim to value animals over humans, here's a little scenario for you all

Your wife/husband/mother/father is trapped in a burning building along with a dog, the firefighters go in and save the dog, they don't have time to save your wife/husband/mother/father so they die. You're perfectly understanding when they tell you that "sorry we could only save one and we chose the dog" ?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

so what?

For the people who claim to value animals over humans, here's a little scenario for you all

Your wife/husband/mother/father is trapped in a burning building along with a dog, the firefighters go in and save the dog, they don't have time to save your wife/husband/mother/father so they die. You're perfectly understanding when they tell you that "sorry we could only save one and we chose the dog" ?

what type of dog was it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what type of dog was it?

That's what I thought

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what type of dog was it?

This exchange with you and Niamh should be on the Comedy Chanel'

[LeatherTrumpet]

Adriana HeguyAdriana Heguy, biologist



The problem here is: how do we know that an animals kills for fun? How do we know the animal is feeling "fun"?

We can try to have an educated guess for an animal's motivation for killing, but we cannot know for sure.

We can say that an animal may not have killed another for food, if it's for example a herbivore, like a moose or deer or an elephant, attacking and killing someone. Or if it a carnivore who kills an animal but does not eat it. But even when the kill is not for food, how do we know the motivation was to have fun?

In the case of cats, many do actually eat the prey, at least in part. It is possible that they enjoy the hunt or the chase, as dogs like to chase skateboarders or squirrels. It's part of the prey drive, part of the instinct that makes them hunters, because carnivores that did not evolve to be good hunters, are not around anymore.

In the case of herbivores, in many cases the animals will attack and kill before they have been abused (like circus elephants) or because they are defending territory or the herd (like a water buffalo).

Even chimps when they hunt, they consume the meat of the critters they hunt.

I think it is hard to find in non-human animals, an exact parallel with humans who hunt (or fish) exclusively for sport, with no need to defend a territory, no intention of eating the meat or using the hide or other parts for a practical purpose, other than boasting or display.

http://www.quora.com/Which-organisms...s-kill-for-fun

[Niamh.]

My cat kills flies and spiders, he doesn't eat them afterwards

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

look LT trying to make excuses for the dogs lol, animals are as vicious as humans, they just do it at a more basic level to humans

The distinction for me is that many humans attack and kill others with evil intent, whereas I don't think the term "evil" can be applied to animals. I don't think animals go around with spiteful, malicious thoughts in their heads, planning on doing harm because they enjoy the thought of being cruel. Many humans, however, do. The animal world is different to ours.

Can animals be as dangerous as humans? Absolutely. Evil is another matter, however.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

The distinction for me is that many humans attack and kill others with evil intent, whereas I don't think the term "evil" can be applied to animals. I don't think animals go around with spiteful, malicious thoughts in their heads, planning on doing harm because they enjoy the thought of being cruel. Many humans, however, do. The animal world is different to ours.

Can animals be as dangerous as humans? Absolutely. Evil is another matter, however.

No offence here but how on Earth could you possibly know that?

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No offence here but how on Earth could you possibly know that?

I used the phrase "I don't think" twice. I never stated anything as a clad-iron fact. We don't know either way for sure, do we? However, I'm strongly of the belief (again, it's merely a belief) that animals can't be evil in the same way humans can.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

The distinction for me is that many humans attack and kill others with evil intent, whereas I don't think the term "evil" can be applied to animals. I don't think animals go around with spiteful, malicious thoughts in their heads, planning on doing harm because they enjoy the thought of being cruel. Many humans, however, do. The animal world is different to ours.

Can animals be as dangerous as humans? Absolutely. Evil is another matter, however.

If you want to look at the dark side of humanity and use it as a stick to beat us over the head with then you need to balance it out with the good too. Humans are incredibly social animals who are capable of empathy/altruism and love and huge levels of co-operation to attain certain goals.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

My cat kills flies and spiders, he doesn't eat them afterwards

I think you should get that thing put down asap

its demented

[Samuel.]

We're all just a variety of living beings ultimately, none more worthy than another

We just put ourselves first which I think is natural. For the vast majority at least, we as humans want to live and live well, and consensually and conveniently put our morality regarding animal life to one side for our food wants and needs. You've seen with fashion that the consesus is changing and we're viewing animal life more valuable than clothing for the most part. I think with food though we'll continue to ignore the countless death toll we're causing for certain animals even when for a lot of us it's really not necessary anymore.

Basically, we're unnecessarily evil but are more than happy to ignore it for convenience. I'm guilty as much as anybody.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

We're all just a variety of living beings ultimately, none more worthy than another

We just put ourselves first which I think is natural. For the vast majority at least, we as humans want to live and live well, and consensually and conveniently put our morality regarding animal life to one side for our food wants and needs. You've seen with fashion that the consesus is changing and we're viewing animal life more valuable than clothing for the most part. I think with food though we'll continue to ignore the countless death toll we're causing for certain animals even when for a lot of us it's really not necessary anymore.

Basically, we're unnecessarily evil but are more than happy to ignore it for convenience. I'm guilty as much as anybody.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

We're all just a variety of living beings ultimately, none more worthy than another

We just put ourselves first which I think is natural. For the vast majority at least, we as humans want to live and live well, and consensually and conveniently put our morality regarding animal life to one side for our food wants and needs. You've seen with fashion that the consesus is changing and we're viewing animal life more valuable than clothing for the most part. I think with food though we'll continue to ignore the countless death toll we're causing for certain animals even when for a lot of us it's really not necessary anymore.

Basically, we're unnecessarily evil but are more than happy to ignore it for convenience. I'm guilty as much as anybody.

[InOne]

It depends on the human life in question.

[thesheriff443]

Dogs have killed kids and children, cows kill people every year, snakes and spiders kill people, humans kill animals and each other.
A human life should be worth more than an animal but some people, ie rapist, child killers and murderers, their life's are worth a lot less than an animal.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Kyle

If you want to look at the dark side of humanity and use it as a stick to beat us over the head with then you need to balance it out with the good too.

I'm not trying to use anything as a stick to beat humans with. I'd have to be quite a self-loathing human (which I'm not) if I was doing that. I was just pointing out what I feel is the difference between certain acts some humans and animals do.

Originally Posted by Kyle

Humans are incredibly social animals who are capable of empathy/altruism and love and huge levels of co-operation to attain certain goals.

Absolutely. I never suggested otherwise.

Of course, I think everything you just described can be applied to many animals, too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think you should get that thing put down asap

its demented

Killing flies and spiders is only to be applauded