[the_chosen_one]

To start off light hearted, for the attention of fans of Celebrity Big Brother 5, Shilpa Shetty will be on Jonathan Ross's show next Friday.

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OK, this is quite a serious subject but I think it may have been done deliberately to reference Big Brother. On Jonathan Ross' show tonight he interviewed Myleene Klass, and when talking about reality TV, he briefly pointed out the racism issues in recent times.

The next guest was tennis player Andy Roddick, and during the conversation Ross enquired as to why Roddick couldn't win matches played on clay courts, as opposed to him being practically unbeatable (apart from Federer) on grass courts. To charm Roddick, Ross suggested that clay courts were for "lesser men.........Spanish men." (Implying Rafael Nadal's 'advantage', him being a dominant clay court player)

This was a distinctly, straight-forward racist comment by Ross, making an actual statement of racial discrimination.

How are we supposed to view this comment from a respected TV personality, when compared to Emily's incorrect use of the N word on Big Brother?

(THIS SUBJECT WAS STARTED TO PROMOTE DISCUSSION, MAY I SUGGEST IT IS NOT TAKEN ANY FURTHER THAN THE FORUM, i.e. MAKING COMPLAINTS ABOUT JONATHAN ROSS. THANKS.)

[InTheFade]

Yeah and Emily made a 'real' racist comment as well, they were both obviously joking (although Emily has allegedly used racist language before...), what do you want, for Jonathon Ross to be evicted from his own show?

[Jodie6]

we've lost our freedom of speech end of story

[Turrican]

Ah I dont think this really compares. Ross is always making risque comments and the audience and viewers all know he is joking. His entire show is tongue-in-cheek. Whereas Emily calling Charley a "ni**er" to her face on a reality TV show is very different and very, very REAL.

People know what to expect when they see Johnathan Ross's show - lot's of offensive stuff which is not meant to be taken seriously. But when you watch Big Brother contestants you are getting real personalities and usually they cannot hide their nasty side for too long.

[InTheFade]

I think it's scary how some Emily fans have the pushed the boundaries of admiring her and worshipping her... No offence intended, as I always feel I have to point out, it's just my opinion. Anyway, maybe the whole Emily thing is actually starting to get tedious for a lot of people now...

[X.Samanda.X]

Everyone in the house is treding on egg shels because of it.(in the house)

[Sunny_01]

I see where you are coming from chosen_one but do you really think that Rossy's comment was comparible to that of Emily's? I cant see it myself.

I do think that at times Ross over steps the mark, and this may well be one of those times but racist hmm I am not convinced

[nodisharmony]

Jonathan Ross is one of those presenters who is quite comical. He wants to jest all the time & the word "Serious" is a word he doesn't understand.

If Shilpa Shetty is being interviewed by him, or even another Celebrity, white or non-white, it hardly makes a difference to quirky-Jonathon.

I am not interested in watching interviews by him on serious issues.

Leave that to a professional interviewer, who can tell the difference between (seriousness & frivolity)






nodisharmony

[Foebane100]

I think Ross comment was just sucking up to his guest and Rafael Nadal has probably played on clay from a young age as that is probably what he had access to.

[Noel]

i get the feeling that people are now looking for other "racist" comments on tv so they can justify emily's actions. then they can say "well they said that, and nothing was done" but it's the fact that emily used the word. jonathon ross didn't use a racially offensive word. and it was obvious that he was joking. the housemates aren't the only ones who are watching what they are saying. i'm sure he knows his limits.

[Wiglet]

The problem is that we are now highly mindful of every single word spoken and watchful for them.

I do not consider J Ross a serious nor racist but I do see where you are coming from but where do we stop?

[Turrican]

Originally posted by noel1993
i get the feeling that people are now looking for other "racist" comments on tv so they can justify emily's actions. then they can say "well they said that, and nothing was done" but it's the fact that emily used the word. jonathon ross didn't use a racially offensive word. and it was obvious that he was joking. the housemates aren't the only ones who are watching what they are saying. i'm sure he knows his limits.

exactly

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I see where you are coming from chosen_one but do you really think that Rossy's comment was comparible to that of Emily's? I cant see it myself.

My personal opinion of it Sunny, is that Emily said a word and Ross (one of my favourite tv personalities) told a joke, simple as that, but as you probably know, I've supported Emily through this. It is Emily's critics and detractors who have put such an irrational twist on this BB incident, so it will be interesting to hear the comments from those who condemned Emily and blew this issue out of proportion, in the first place.

[Fanboy_Luke]

I'll be pedantic and say the Spanish aren't a race; xenophobia and racism aren't the same thing. BTW I've got to say Wossy's a genius.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Foebane100
I think Ross comment was just sucking up to his guest

I saw the show (shown at 11.20 in Northern Ireland so I saw if after BB) and that is exactly what was happening. Roddick was poking fun at himself for how badly he plays on clay and Wossy was jokingly trying to massage his ego by suggesting that it must be lesser men who do well on clay! They had already mentioned how well the spanish do on clay, so it was just tying the two parts together. I didn't take any offence from it, although I'm not a spanish tennis player so don't know how they would have reacted!

And Roddick went on to say that actually playing on clay is more physically demanding and that maybe he was actually the lesser man!

It's not uncommon on British TV to see some form of xenophobia (usually directed at the germans or the french) and nothing is done about it. Hypocrisy maybe, but somethings people can get away with and some they can't. Maybe it's not fair, but that's life.

[lily.]

I think it's a gross over-reaction if anyone thinks JR was being racist. However, if he had used the "N" word on his show whilst talking to a guest who was Black, then that would have been racist. Simple as that.

I suggest people stop with the "where's the freedom of speech" and "we have to read on eggshells" bullshit, and move on to the simple fact that "we shouldn't insult others on the basis of their colour/nationality/religion". It's simple manners, something which Emily clearly lacks, despite her privileged upbringing.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Stropz
I think it's a gross over-reaction if anyone thinks JR was being racist. However, if he had used the "N" word on his show whilst talking to a guest who was Black, then that would have been racist. Simple as that.

I suggest people stop with the "where's the freedom of speech" and "we have to read on eggshells" bullshit, and move on to the simple fact that "we shouldn't insult others on the basis of their colour/nationality/religion". It's simple manners, something which Emily clearly lacks, despite her privileged upbringing.

Good post

From what I heard, it seems JR made a statement that implied a stereotype. If he'd made a comment about Jews being tight it would be the same thing. If, on the other hand, he called a jewish person a kyke then he'd be in trouble

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by the_chosen_one


My personal opinion of it Sunny, is that Emily said a word and Ross (one of my favourite tv personalities) told a joke, simple as that, but as you probably know, I've supported Emily through this. It is Emily's critics and detractors who have put such an irrational twist on this BB incident, so it will be interesting to hear the comments from those who condemned Emily and blew this issue out of proportion, in the first place.

'Irrational twist', 'blew this issue out of proportion'. I'm stunned. Emily used one of the most offensive words on the planet. She had to go. Have you read my last post in t he 'if its such a bad word' thread. After you view it, can I ask? Do you think that after Michael Richards uses the word, the audience walk out was 'irrational' or 'out of proportion'? No they walked out because they were offended.

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by GiRTh
'Irrational twist', 'blew this issue out of proportion'. I'm stunned. Emily used one of the most offensive words on the planet. She had to go. Have you read my last post in t he 'if its such a bad word' thread. After you view it, can I ask? Do you think that after Michael Richards uses the word, the audience walk out was 'irrational' or 'out of proportion'? No they walked out because they were offended.

People have called Emily a 'racist' because she spoke a word which was common in certain circles. That's an irrational twist. The way people have converted their original jealousy and hatred for a well spoken upper class girl into this tidal wave of condemnation is blowing it 'out of proportion'. If someone like Laura had said the word, people would have rightfully been shocked but would not react the way people have reacted on the forum, of that I am almost sure. Emily's haters would still be tucked away, still hating Emily.

I'm not trying to undermine the process of Emily being evicted for using a word that would offend, I'm undermining the irrational hatred we are now encountering.

Originally posted by GiRTh
From what I heard, it seems JR made a statement that implied a stereotype. If he'd made a comment about Jews being tight it would be the same thing. If, on the other hand, he called a jewish person a kyke then he'd be in trouble

So to declare a group of people "lesser men" based on their nationality, compared to English men and American men, is OK

YET

If you speak a word, regardless of context - (e.g. Kyke) - Then that is racism in full flow?

[GiRTh]

First point, the fact that she used the word means that we can ask the question. I don't see her getting picked on. In fact she made a number of contentious statements before entering the house. Now that she's disgraced herself in this manner, people have the right to know. I don't think she is being subjected to hatred. I watched her interview on BBLB and was genuinely taken by her honesty.

Second point, as you pointed out, JR made a joke and as nodis has pointed out, he is the kind of performer who tries to push the boundaries. And yes, the term kike is officially defined as derogatory, so it is racism in full flow.

[Amy21]

That doesnt really compare to what Emily said. Emily came right out and said teh word n@ggar where as Jonathan didnt.

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by GiRTh
First point, the fact that she used the word means that we can ask the question. I don't see her getting picked on. In fact she made a number of contentious statements before entering the house. Now that she's disgraced herself in this manner, people have the right to know. I don't think she is being subjected to hatred. I watched her interview on BBLB and was genuinely taken by her honesty.

Second point, as you pointed out, JR made a joke and as nodis has pointed out, he is the kind of performer who tries to push the boundaries. And yes, the term kike is officially defined as derogatory, so it is racism in full flow.

A baby's first word could happen to be 'kyke', but a baby could never make a racially derogatory statement.

Do you see what I'm getting at, racism in verbal form is about the content of statements, not about phonetics. Attacking these silly individual words doesn't stop racism. Educating people stops racism, which includes all these ignorant people hurling the word 'racist' around.

I'm not referring to you Girth, you have made some very solid arguments all over the forum, but some of our fellow posters are using this word 'racist' to hide behind their ignorance, when ignorance itself is what causes discrimination.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by the_chosen_one

A babie's first word could happen to be 'kyke', but a baby could never make a racially derogatory statement.

Do you see what I'm getting at, racism in verbal form is about the content of statements, not about phonetics. Attacking these silly individual words doesn't stop racism. Educating people stops racism, which includes all these ignorant people hurling the word 'racist' around.

I'm not referring to you Girth, you have made some very solid arguments all over the forum, but some of our fellow posters are using this word 'racist' to hide behind their ignorance, when ignorance is what causes discrimination.

Good post

Racism is caused my ignorance. Some forum members simply are not prepared to understand.

[the_chosen_one]

Thanks Girth. As I said in the opening post, this is a serious subject so I can understand people not wishing to get involved, but this is an invitation for the people crying 'racist!!' to explain themselves and apply equal condemnation to all race related incidents. We'll have to wait and see if one of them can meet the challenge.

[InTheHood]

PC Brigade, PC Brigade

Charley said something in Chanelle's voice, taking the pee......nothing was done........why? Cos Chanelle isn't an ethnic minority and is English.

I'm kinda bored of my white friends asking me what I think of BB race rows

All BB does is make my time whilst it's on TV, a permanent race discussion.