[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hang on...
'The investigatory powers legislation is expected to include powers to require internet and phone companies to collect and store for 12 months the browsing histories of customers along with detailed records of voice calls, messaging and text services.'

That's not 'suspects' that's everyone

Bleh. Might finally be time to shell out for a VPN subscription.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nobody should endorse Security firms getting even more authority to invade our privacy. It annoys me how people are so willing to throw away their rights at the mention of terrorists or peadophiles and how naive they are to think that's all it would be used for.

We're talking at our security services, not security firms.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hang on...
'The investigatory powers legislation is expected to include powers to require internet and phone companies to collect and store for 12 months the browsing histories of customers along with detailed records of voice calls, messaging and text services.'

That's not 'suspects' that's everyone

That one is already in force. Internet service providers must store internet history. Also, I can already look up who I called on the phone going back ages. So, again, this isn't anything over and above powers already in force

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

its not a simple 1 dimensional issue. Civil liberties will be eroded by extending surveillance measures and at some point (different for everyone) the boundaries of acceptability will be exceeded. If we live in a truly free society which is what our powers that be are supposed to aspire to, then they have already sacrificed liberties in the name of security.

Does security infringe on how we carry out our day to day lives, no not yet. Does living in fear that a madman will shoot up a theatre or bomb public places infringe on or freedom, no not yet. The latter is probably still true because the security measures we have are successful, we know many threats have been thwarted before terrorists got a chance to go wild. What would have happened without those surveillance measures?

So, we have a balance at the moment that seems to be quite effective. If terrorists start beating the current measures, and they start to become successful, then we should up our game and increase surveillance, but at the moment, as terrorists have had very little success here, I personally don't see a need for any further measures.

The emboldened bit kind of answers your final paragraph. And actually we don't know how many threats have been thwarted, we, the public, have no idea how many.

[Kizzy]

They need to vet all the MPs calls and emails asap to avoid any 'unpleasantness' no wonder the rush to get this through before Fernbridge/ Fairbank/midland winkles out any more...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

We're talking at our security services, not security firms.

You say tomato...

The phrasing is irrelevant.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You say tomato...

The phrasing is irrelevant.

No, they're two entirely different entities. MI5, MI6 etc. aren't the same as G4S.

And actually, I say tormaytoo, just to be different.

[user104658]

It's only a matter of time before various security issues are offloaded to private firms anyway, surely. Tories have trouser-busting boners for privatisation.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Bleh. Might finally be time to shell out for a VPN subscription.

If you do that, it highlights that you are using methods to hide what you are doing and then you become more of a person of interest

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's only a matter of time before various security issues are offloaded to private firms anyway, surely. Tories have trouser-busting boners for privatisation.

I can't see that flying. Although if Corbyn ever gets in they'll probably go the same way as our membership of NATO will. Of course that will make it easier for his chums in Hamas and Hezbollah to get in.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can't see that flying. Although if Corbyn ever gets in they'll probably go the same way as our membership of NATO will. Of course that will make it easier for his chums in Hamas and Hezbollah to get in.

And the Sith.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If you do that, it highlights that you are using methods to hide what you are doing and then you become more of a person of interest

I can't see TS ever being described as a person of interest.

I'm kidding. I AM!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And the Sith.

According to the last census they're here already... and strangely enough, mostly in Scotland.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If you do that, it highlights that you are using methods to hide what you are doing and then you become more of a person of interest

Nah I drive around until I find an unsecured WiFi signal for the REALLY dodgy stuff.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by livia

i can't see ts ever being described as a person of interest.

i'm kidding. I am!

words can be like fists

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

words can be like fists

You know I love you and find you endlessly fascinating, don't you. You crazy leftie.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

You crazy leftie.

Ebonyyy, and ivoryyy, except you're a jeeew, not blaaack , but close enooough.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nobody should endorse Security firms getting even more authority to invade our privacy. It annoys me how people are so willing to throw away their rights at the mention of terrorists or peadophiles and how naive they are to think that's all it would be used for.

This,pretty much for me.

I certainly wouldn't trust this particular govt.(or indeed likely any other of any party), really to make sure true safeguards were in place to 'routine' activities.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Ebonyyy, and ivoryyy, except you're a jeeew, not blaaack , but close enooough.

Christmas No.1

[smudgie]

I am quite happy for them to check my Tesco shopping list if it keeps us safe.
They are not interested in us boring normal people going about our normal boring lives, it is to stop the likes of the idiot jailed today for 8 years

[user104658]

It amazes me how many people would be willing slaves, so long as they're comfortable slaves.

[Kizzy]

Store the records of the entire population.. And how long will it be before they are dipping into that info for everything?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Store the records of the entire population.. And how long will it be before they are dipping into that info for everything?

They will be, that's the big downside. Remember "a previous government" wanted all our medical details held in a giant system too, and were negotiating to sell that information overseas. We don't have privacy, many young people have already sacrificed their privacy for life by using social media. Once you are in the systems, its already too late.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

They will be, that's the big downside. Remember "a previous government" wanted all our medical details held in a giant system too, and were negotiating to sell that information overseas. We don't have privacy, many young people have already sacrificed their privacy for life by using social media. Once you are in the systems, its already too late.

Yep they were planning the big NHS garage sale and needed to know the most profitable areas.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It amazes me how many people would be willing slaves, so long as they're comfortable slaves.

That is chillingly close to something Orwell once said!