[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

How would I know, that would make me more informed than the majority of the commons wouldn't it?...
You seem to think we're at war, in which case there would be no question of extending strikes, the fact is we're not...yet.
If anything can be don't to avoid this then that would be better, it can't be suggested though that my opinion against strikes is invalid as I don't have all the answers to this nihilistic debate.

You and others keep maintaining that we are not at war but I am sure that you are all not only well aware that ISIS has long and repeatedly DECLARED WAR on all HUMANITY, but also aware that war does NOT have to be multilaterally declared for war to be existant.

If you TRULY do not believe that IS are at war with us, then please try walking into IS controlled territory and tell them that you are a Jeremy Corbin supporter and not at war with them, I am sure that they will agree and serve you with tea and cucumber sandwiches.

[bitontheslide]

only 7:30 mins debate to go ...

[arista]

They are saying the Vote is at 10PM

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

They are saying the Vote is at 10PM

That is when it was announced it would be held arista, you are right.

[MTVN]

The obvious answer to the 'troops on the ground' question is the one that nobody is prepared to face up to: the Syrian army. They are the ones who have done the most fighting against ISIS and are the best placed force to defeat them. They are not going to be defeated by this ragtag group of supposed moderates which contains dozens of different factions who are simply not going to transform into a united and credible force to defeat both ISIS and Assad.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fezziwig

The obvious answer to the 'troops on the ground' question is the one that nobody is prepared to face up to: the Syrian army. They are the ones who have done the most fighting against ISIS and are the best placed force to defeat them. They are not going to be defeated by this ragtag group of supposed moderates which contains dozens of different factions who are simply not going to transform into a united and credible force to defeat both ISIS and Assad.

I agree but that is the people the PM and this motion wants to concentrate on as to helping.
So where is that going to lead.

I also don't believe there are 70,000 moderates among them anyway.
The best speech on this so far has come from John Baron,Conservative.

[arista]

The LibDem Leader is voting
for Bombing

[MTVN]

Alan Johnson: "I've found this decision as difficult as anyone to make, I wish I had the self-righteous certitude of our finger-jabbing representatives of our 'new and kinder' type of politics who will no doubt soon be contacting those of us who support this motion"

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

The LibDem Leader is voting
for Bombing

Got to be honest that stunned me. I never had any doubt the DUP would be.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Alan Johnson: "I've found this decision as difficult as anyone to make, I wish I had the self-righteous certitude of our finger-jabbing representatives of our 'new and kinder' type of politics who will no doubt soon be contacting those of us who support this motion"

He makes excellent points.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Considering the cluster **** that any conflict could turn into, no politician in his right mind would choose to go to war. Who would want to go to war for the sake of it? Apart from Tony Blair, obviously...

It benefits him because his public approval can't go any lower, if we go to war and win that'll provide a huge boost for him. If I remember right, there's not been many occasions in which a PM has not retained his position in times of war.

Isis are on borrowed time with or without our involvement, Cameron's determined to go to war because it's the only hope he has of staying in office and that's obvious by his pathetic 'Do as I say or you're a terrorist sympathiser' approach to Corbyn. War is the only way the Tories are going to stay in power in the next election.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It benefits him because his public approval can't go any lower, if we go to war and win that'll provide a huge boost for him. If I remember right, there's not been many occasions in which a PM has not retained his position in times of war.

Isis are on borrowed time with or without our involvement, Cameron's determined to go to war because it's the only hope he has of staying in office and that's obvious by his pathetic 'Do as I say or you're a terrorist sympathiser' approach to Corbyn. War is the only way the Tories are going to stay in power in the next election.

Churchill lost the election after the war .....

I think Cameron's timing on his comment was inappropriate, but there is plenty information out there showing Corbyns sympathies.

I have no issue with an individual being a pacifist which I am sure Corbyn is, but it is not appropriate for a potential future Prime Minister. He puts the country at an automatic disadvantage in any political or military conflict

[arista]

I think at 10PM
the Vote will be Yes to Air Bombers

"Labour Big-Hitters Defy Corbyn On IS Airstrikes"

[Northern Monkey]

Russia are a problem.BBC news showing a map and the moderates are currently pinned down by Assad and Russian bombers.There could be disputes over this.

[MTVN]

I wonder if any of the SNP will vote with the government? They seem to be capable of much greater unity than any other party, probably because they hate the Tories so much

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I wonder if any of the SNP will vote with the government? They seem to be capable of much greater unity than any other party, probably because they hate the Tories so much

2 are so far

[MTVN]

"Labour MPs used their speeches to parliament to speak out against the pressure some Labour MPs have come under to oppose airstrikes. Former Labour home secretary Alan Johnson said he had found the decision to vote in favour very difficult, adding: “I wish I had frankly the self-righteous certitude of the finger-jabbing representatives of our new and kinder type of politics.” John Woodcock MP said: “I think that some of the people on the front bench now, and the people heckling behind me, need to think very carefully about the way in which they have conducted themselves over recent weeks.” Ahead of the debate, Labour MPs like Stella Creasy complained about the abuse and threats of deselection that they were receiving."

#newpolitics

[Samuel.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think there is much more support for Corbyn on this forum than there is in the country. The support here is disproportionate, in my opinion. I think the vote will be to join the air strikes, I'd be ashamed of us as a country if we turned our backs on our allies.

Actually TiBB is the most anti-Corbyn place I keep up to date with. Other forums and social media are heavily in support of Corbyn in my experience. Not that that proves anything substantial about the overall support he has but it's an indication that it's not just a small minority.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

"Labour MPs used their speeches to parliament to speak out against the pressure some Labour MPs have come under to oppose airstrikes. Former Labour home secretary Alan Johnson said he had found the decision to vote in favour very difficult, adding: “I wish I had frankly the self-righteous certitude of the finger-jabbing representatives of our new and kinder type of politics.” John Woodcock MP said: “I think that some of the people on the front bench now, and the people heckling behind me, need to think very carefully about the way in which they have conducted themselves over recent weeks.” Ahead of the debate, Labour MPs like Stella Creasy complained about the abuse and threats of deselection that they were receiving."

#newpolitics

Corbyn's Labour Party 'democracy' in action uh?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by MTVN

"Labour MPs used their speeches to parliament to speak out against the pressure some Labour MPs have come under to oppose airstrikes. Former Labour home secretary Alan Johnson said he had found the decision to vote in favour very difficult, adding: “I wish I had frankly the self-righteous certitude of the finger-jabbing representatives of our new and kinder type of politics.” John Woodcock MP said: “I think that some of the people on the front bench now, and the people heckling behind me, need to think very carefully about the way in which they have conducted themselves over recent weeks.” Ahead of the debate, Labour MPs like Stella Creasy complained about the abuse and threats of deselection that they were receiving."

#newpolitics

Yes i read something similar yesterday.Some Labour MP's have faced great pressure.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

2 are so far

i think that may be 1 tory and 1 lib dem. The SNP are voting on mass I believe

[arista]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

i think that may be 1 tory and 1 lib dem. The SNP are voting on mass I believe

No 2 SNP
are for it.


The Leader confirmed

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

No 2 SNP
are for it.


The Leader confirmed

its a changing scenario then as last night all SNP were to be voting against. At least we will know one way or another in just over 3 hours.

[arista]

[joeysteele]

Well at least all Labour MPs can stand up in the Commons today and say what they really feel and 'want' to do on this issue.
Which is a great deal more democratic than for the MPs on the Conservative side who are threatened with all sorts if they dare to vote against the whip and not for the motion.

This debate is a good one but not long enough, again MPs are having the time they can have to make their points reduced yet again, ridiculous.