[the truth]

Mostly in wales and the north
The UK simply canno produce steel cheaply enough because of the EU rules and regulations and red tape...this pushes up our costs of production to completely uncompetitive levels

Meanwhile the Chinese have no such rules, so they produce it cheap and their steel is absolute garbage, check out the flimsiness of Chinese car parts when you buy them

We also let the Chinese dump their excess cheap rubbish steel across Europe and this floods the market and kills our industry

Meanwhile Cameron doe nothing, warwyn jones the welsh leader does nothing, and the European does nothing but strange yet another industry

The EU has made it too expensive to dig coal, too pricey cut slate, its stopped us fishing, destroyed agriculture, lime quarries are shut, transport costs are off the scale with their endless tacho drivers rules, now tin, copper and steel has been destroyed too

And this is actually costing us £13 billion a year and we're too scared to leave?

[JoshBB]

EU rules and regulations and red tape...this pushes up our costs of production to completely uncompetitive levels

Meanwhile the Chinese have no such rules, so they produce it cheap and their steel is absolute garbage, check out the flimsiness of Chinese car parts when you buy them

The reason regulation exists is so that our steel is not 'absolute garbage' or 'flimsy' as you put it.

These job losses are one of many negative sides of the 'free-market' that most rightwingers cite as the holy grail of economics. China flooded the market with cheap steel, therefore the supply goes up massively and demand is less.. so the price drops and jobs are lost. It's as simple as that.

This is an example of irresponsible trade, not EU failure.

[the truth]

its EU failiure in every sense, our rules are too costly, our rules and tariffs on Chinese crap are too flimsy....the EU is yet again destroying us

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

its EU failiure in every sense, our rules are too costly, our rules and tariffs on Chinese crap are too flimsy....the EU is yet again destroying us

You'll have to provide some actual factual evidence on which you base this, because the vast majority of us don't know the EU rulebook. All I can do here (and without sources I can only assume you are the same) is speak in principal, but EU regulation is more complex than a few soundbites.

But honestly they're more intelligent than they're given credit for. Everyone seems to speak of 'the EU' as idiotic, and as 'one being'. When in fact that is far too much of a general term to use. By EU, are we referring to it's constitution? The european parliament (directly elected representatives from EU member states)? The european commission? Legislation passed? Treaties?

[joeysteele]

It's devastatingly bad news and a disgrace more hasn't been done past and present to ensure the viability of Steel in the UK.
It is not however down to the EU but more a failure of our governments to fight for the industry.

[smudgie]

Unfortunately in a free market, some people will buy quantity over quality.
In a few years time, once the inferior quality steel starts to let people down, ii will be a bit late to wring hands and wish they had bought British.
Having said that, there are many other countries in the world still making decent quality steel, not all are like China.

[LeatherTrumpet]

sadly we take any steel in instead of saying whoooah this Chinese steel has been artificially marketed by huge govt subsidies so it cant come in

reap

sow

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

sadly we take any steel in instead of saying whoooah this Chinese steel has been artificially marketed by huge govt subsidies so it cant come in

reap

sow

I also wonder which companies are buying this steel? I can't imagine that being good for their reputation.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I also wonder which companies are buying this steel? I can't imagine that being good for their reputation.

sadly the steel jobs are collateral damage from us wanting to be chinas best friend

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

sadly the steel jobs are collateral damage from us wanting to be chinas best friend

Agreed.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

sadly the steel jobs are collateral damage from us wanting to be chinas best friend

I thought that we've been paying the EU £55 million + per day NET for the last 40 years so that we would not NEED any 'friends'.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I thought that we've been paying the EU £55 million + per day NET for the last 40 years so that we would not NEED any 'friends'.

We get far more out of the EU than what we pay in.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

We get far more out of the EU than what we pay in.

what? we lose £13 billion a year to the EU?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

You'll have to provide some actual factual evidence on which you base this, because the vast majority of us don't know the EU rulebook. All I can do here (and without sources I can only assume you are the same) is speak in principal, but EU regulation is more complex than a few soundbites.

But honestly they're more intelligent than they're given credit for. Everyone seems to speak of 'the EU' as idiotic, and as 'one being'. When in fact that is far too much of a general term to use. By EU, are we referring to it's constitution? The european parliament (directly elected representatives from EU member states)? The european commission? Legislation passed? Treaties?

the European Union is to blame. Their absurd 400 page constitution of endless laws and regulations has strangled our industries and raised our costs of production to uncompetitive levels.

[bitontheslide]

The steel industry has been dead in the UK for over 30 years, we really can't blame the Chinese or Europe for that

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The steel industry has been dead in the UK for over 30 years, we really can't blame the Chinese or Europe for that

yes we can....the german steel industry is doing very well, port Talbot has gone from 18000 to 3000 in 25 years

[Kizzy]

Germany would not allow their infrastructure to be eroded.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Germany would not allow their infrastructure to be eroded.

they control the EU so change the laws and rules to suit their own infrastructure and economy

[Kizzy]

No, I mean they don't import they make their own stuff.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, I mean they don't import they make their own stuff.

they control the EU and make up the rules to suit their own infrastructure, their costs of steel production are therefore lower than ours

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

We get far more out of the EU than what we pay in.

You really do need to be more expansive in your choice of sources of information Josh.

I will CHALLENGE you to a personal FAIR and HONEST debate on the validity of your statement, WITHOUT either of us being waylaid or distracted by the inevitable unsubstantiated propaganda from other members - of ANY political persuasion.

FACTS and FACTUAL COUNTER. STATISTICS and COUNTER STATISTICS and FAIR DEBATE.

It will be a lengthy debate - of necessity, but GO for it Josh.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

We get far more out of the EU than what we pay in.

You really do need to be more expansive in your choice of information Josh.

I will CHALLENGE you to a personal FAIR and HONEST debate on the validity of your statement, WITHOUT either of us being waylaid or distracted by the inevitable unsubstantiated propaganda from other members - of ANY political persuasion.

FACTS and FACTUAL COUNTER. STATISTICS and COUNTER STATISTICS and FAIR DEBATE.

It will be a lengthy debate - of necessity, but GO for it Josh.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

We get far more out of the EU than what we pay in.

You really do need to be more expansive in your choice of sources of information Josh.

I will CHALLENGE you to a personal FAIR and HONEST debate on the validity of your statement, WITHOUT either of us being waylaid or distracted by the inevitable unsubstantiated propaganda from other members - of ANY political persuasion.

FACTS and FACTUAL COUNTER. STATISTICS and COUNTER STATISTICS and FAIR DEBATE.

It will be a lengthy debate - of necessity, but GO for it Josh.

[bitontheslide]

why say something once if you can say it 3 times

[joeysteele]

As to the EU creeping in on this thread now,I really don't think the British public can ever get anywhere a fair and balanced debate as to the EU and certainly not from UKIP circles at all.
There is good and bad as to the EU but if the referendum is coming earlier than 2017,then no way will those actually being selected and allowed' to vote in it,ever get from politicians or the media the true and relevant fair and balanced facts as to the EU.

However, I am putting my trust in this PM to at least be seen to do the best here for the UK and hopefully he will win the day come that EU referendum and we stay in.

As to Steel,the problems have been looming a fair while and all govts have failed to make sure things were in place to protect the industry.
That has now come home to roost and sadly it looks bleak.
I really do think that the Minister Anna Soubry for the govt would love to be able to do more but the problem now is too large.
Also that she is not receiving the will to do much more from the rest of the govt she is in.