[Crimson Dynamo]

out please

[reece(:]

IN

No way is this country in a state of self sustainability.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I can see it now, stuff the EU ..stuff Scotland and wherever else that want to remain in. Little Britain rules OK?
We will have to join some trade organisation... take a seat in the WTO maybe, and what will that entail? Will that mean agreements regarding freedom of movement..freedom for people worldwide to access our services and welfare system?
I don't think that anyone who wants out of the EU fully understands what the alternatives will be, I have heard not one scenario that would be of any benefit, or satisfy the concerns that are currently held regarding our place in Europe.
It will only serve to alienate us from our closest neighbours and allies, those with whom we have the closest geographical,cultural and dare I say it religious ties.

No - quite simply put, it is YOU who does not have a clue what you are talking about.

[DemolitionRed]

Because I don't trust our government I'm afraid I'd have to vote to stay in. We have a government who'd love to take away more of our civil liberties but with the EU anchor around their necks, they can't.

We are also not an empire any more and if Scotland pulls away from us then we are merely a spit of land all on its own, with little to export and very dependant on import.

Yes the Europeans can't all pitch up here HOORAY you shout but guess what, we can't pitch up wherever we want in Europe now either.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

[/B]

No - quite simply put, it is YOU who does not have a clue what you are talking about.

Well, I waited almost a year for a response and quite frankly, I'm disappointed.

[joeysteele]

I am still solidly for 'in'.
Although I do think this PM asked for very little in reality,I am really pleased to see more passion and a will from him to be able to recommend staying in.

I do fear he will not have the clout to influence a lot of voters to vote in, unlike Harold Wilson in 1975 but I really hope he makes a good case from all his talks and negotiations with the EU.

I still can see a tight finish possibly and the worst scenario too,that N Ireland, Wales and Scotland all vote to remain in,from the North to the Midlands of England voting to stay in, all the major cities alongside London also doing so.
Then the far South from the East to the West of the far South, possibly carrying a narrow out result.
Something that would not only create havoc with us leaving the EU but totally damage the structure of the United Kingdom too.

So this s a massive personal test now for David Cameron,if he fails to persuade the UK to remain in, it could be curtains for him a lot sooner than just before the next general election.
So good luck to him,on this if he recommends remaining in, he has my full support for sure.

[DemolitionRed]

He has made it clear he hasn't got a contingency plan Joey so if we leave I should think he will too, regardless of what he says now.

[the truth]

this is the last chance we will ever have of actually saving great Britain.
beyond this we will simply lose all sovereignty left and all important laws dictated to us by angela merkel and her successors. the fact one country basically runs the eu for its own ends, is in itself an absolute disgrace. THE EU CONSTITUTION WAS 70000 WORDS IN 204 NOW ITS WAY MORE....the US constitution is 7500 and its 250 years old ffs

I would literally pay Ł100,000 if I could afford it to get out...that's how much I utterly detest and hate the EU ....

OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Do you believe that we should come out of the EU or do you believe that we should stay in?

Please answer and give your reasons.

I want to stay as we are - keep our currency as it is and no more changes.

every time I have a note I sing GOD save the queen.

[Kazanne]

I'm leaning on the side of coming out, I dont want another country overriding our laws in particular.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I'd vote to stay in in a referendum. The positives far outweigh any negatives, in my opinion.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by waterhog

I want to stay as we are - keep our currency as it is and no more changes.

every time I have a note I sing GOD save the queen.

Yes thank God we kept our sovereign currency.

[JoshBB]

Honestly, I'd be extremely pissed off if I were pulled out of the EU by a bunch of anti-immigration ignorants who know nothing more than the few phrases Farage spouts. When I am older, I am hoping that I am able to study abroad (in an EU country) and possibly even consider migrating for the life experience. If my freedom to move is forcibly taken from me, that will piss me off to no end.

There are elements of the EU which I don't like - a non-directly elected president , and TTIP, just to name two of them. But that doesn't mean you have to cut off your nose to spite your face, within any governmental organisation you have to be mature and work to find agreements and fight for what you truly believe in. A lot of people dislike the way our House of Commons is run, shall we just walk away from that also? Of course you don't, that wouldn't benefit anyone. And it's the same for the EU. Seems to me that Euroscepticism is just a way to euphemism the fact that people are too lazy to look towards sensible reform an would rather just look at the issue in a very black-or-white way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I'm leaning on the side of coming out, I dont want another country overriding our laws in particular.

I understand that but sometimes the overruling can also be of benefit too.

That however is something that should be changed and one day some govt may get round to doing so.
We now have in place thanks to the Coalition govt,a policy firmly in place that now means any more treaties the EU wish to bring in, the UK must be asked if they want it signed.
It cannot be automatically signed now by any PM,it has to go to a UK referendum.

So while I get where you are coming from and the ruling that aided those things get out sooner than they may have as to the case that is so close to your heart and its still one that fills me with horror and fury too.
I fear possibly worse laws from unchecked govts, and so for me despite my reservations to your issue on the EU overruling us at times,the economics and all that comes from being a full partner in Europe,leans me to stay in.

Nothing is ever perfect but I have not a single thing that fills me with confidence as to where we would go if out the EU, all the new negotiations with the EU we would 'have' to do for a trade deal and then even still having to accept their rulings in some things despite not being a member anymore.

I really do believe as even Cameron has looked closely at the picture beyond leaving, he has now come to realise the chaos that may ensue from an exit.
Which is why he is now fighting hard to get something to offer the UK and hope he gets enough myself.

However, this needs to be something fought over long after the referendum too, for too long PMs of the UK have just accepted what the EU threw at us rather than challenge as Margaret Thatcher did so often to her credit.
So if the vote is to remain in the EU, then really what this PM has started in the EU as to hopefully more continual ongoing reform, that needs to be something any UK PM elected in the future continues to do too.
Making sure we 'make' our voice heard in the EU rather than just hoping it will be.

Unity is strength as the saying goes, and I will be voting to stay in for many reasons, despite the negatives there are too,I still believe the positives are in the majority overall for remaining in.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by wannashag

Undecided

My problem with staying in is, why are the establishment so adamant to keep us in? History tells us how massively corrupt the establishment is, but we keep putting our trust in them, because they tell us too.

Why are the money making machine of America so determined and in a panic for us to stay in? is it for the good of the people or the good of the elite?


If we don't want to govern ourselves, then why do we want to be governed by the EU?
Why do we want to be governed by anyone?

The out vote stands no chance.

We will be voting to stay in, because as a whole we obey what we're lead to believe is good and true.

I have no time now because I have to go to work, but you have got closer to the truth of this sordid mess than anyone else on here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well, I waited almost a year for a response and quite frankly, I'm disappointed.

Tempus Fugit but I will respond when I return from work.

[bots]

I think it boils down to some very simple principles, all other issues are just noise that cause upset as we as a country face challenges as we react to the world around us.

Some common misunderstandings. The EU can't impose anything on the UK if we don't want to comply. Plenty other countries in Europe have ignored EU edicts as and when it suits them, with no penalty.

Immigration is an issue for us at this point in our history, at other times, we will stand with open arms welcoming people depending on our circumstances. This is a proven fact in our relatively recent history.

We can either be insular and tell everyone else to f off or we can embrace others cultures and grow and enrich ourselves in the process.

The European Union is a principle, things can always adapt as we go, we shouldn't base decisions around short term issues in our country's history.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Honestly, I'd be extremely pissed off if I were pulled out of the EU by a bunch of anti-immigration ignorants who know nothing more than the few phrases Farage spouts. When I am older, I am hoping that I am able to study abroad (in an EU country) and possibly even consider migrating for the life experience. If my freedom to move is forcibly taken from me, that will piss me off to no end.

There are elements of the EU which I don't like - a non-directly elected president , and TTIP, just to name two of them. But that doesn't mean you have to cut off your nose to spite your face, within any governmental organisation you have to be mature and work to find agreements and fight for what you truly believe in. A lot of people dislike the way our House of Commons is run, shall we just walk away from that also? Of course you don't, that wouldn't benefit anyone. And it's the same for the EU. Seems to me that Euroscepticism is just a way to euphemism the fact that people are too lazy to look towards sensible reform an would rather just look at the issue in a very black-or-white way.

So in other words, if people disagree with you, they're ignorant Farage-supporters? Josh, get your head out of your arse and credit people with a little more intelligence, at LEAST as much as you think you have.

The bottom line is this: We get back only about half what we put in. We trade more with the USA than we do with the EU, and we'd still trade with the EU regardless of whether we were a member... other countries do.

I can't see any benefit for Brits apart from the free movement through borders, and that's a double-edged sword if ever there was one.

I was on the fence for a long time, but after considerable thought I came to my conclusion.

Out.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Honestly, I'd be extremely pissed off if I were pulled out of the EU by a bunch of anti-immigration ignorants who know nothing more than the few phrases Farage spouts.

Farage made a lot of noise about that but he forgot to mention this http://odihpn.org/magazine/the-human...ees-in-the-uk/

Refugees already have the benefit of another international convention, the 1951 Refugee Convention, which is already effectively part of UK law.

Regardless of Farage pulling us out of the EU, what he can't do is sit down with his cabinet and take apart and re-write The Human Rights Act. Can you imagine the rest of parliament sitting back and allowing that

I'm always a little amused when people tell me they want Farage because he will sort out the immigrants, because he simply doesn't have that choice.

[Livia]

Who are these anti-immigration Farage-ites? It was the Conservatives who offered the In/Out referendum, not UKIP and definitely not Labour. The only party of offer a proper referendum was the Tories. Most of the people I've spoken to about this have really given it some thought, whether they're ins or outs. No one's taking this opportunity lightly and if anyone thinks that if we do exit Europe, it'll be because of some Farage followers they'd be seriously mistaken. If we do come out of Europe it'll be because thinking people have made a decision they think right for this country... whether that sits well with some or not.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by the truth

this is the last chance we will ever have of actually saving great Britain.
beyond this we will simply lose all sovereignty left and all important laws dictated to us by angela merkel and her successors. the fact one country basically runs the eu for its own ends, is in itself an absolute disgrace. THE EU CONSTITUTION WAS 70000 WORDS IN 204 NOW ITS WAY MORE....the US constitution is 7500 and its 250 years old ffs

I would literally pay Ł100,000 if I could afford it to get out...that's how much I utterly detest and hate the EU ....

I think you will find that 'The European Court of Human Rights' was written off the back of the 'British Court of Human Rights' and the BCHR was the successor of the Magna Carta. To put that another way, every time we try to change the rules on human rights, we are changing the rules of the original format we wrote and accepted and what other European countries adopted from us.

[lostalex]

Europe is always going to be a mishmash of stupid undemocratic bureaucrats. There is really nothing redeeming about it, it doesn't provide equal protection to all citizens, and the continent is just as un stable;e as it's ever been.

Until the EU is truly democratic it will be worthless.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Europe is always going to be a mishmash of stupid undemocratic bureaucrats. There is really nothing redeeming about it, it doesn't provide equal protection to all citizens, and the continent is just as un stable;e as it's ever been.

Until the EU is truly democratic it will be worthless.

We agree again,Alex. Some people have the idea, I think, that one day we'll morph into the United States of Europe but it's never going to happen. Never ever...

[arista]

If The PM
gets his Euro Answers by Friday
its Expected to by the UK Vote on 23rd of June, Thurs.
In or Out - Shake it All About, Hog.

Once he fires the starting pistol
the Conservative MP's that want
to leave the E U
can start going on the press
in Full strength.


Ref: SkyNewsHD, Ch4HD News , BBC NewsHD, GMBHD,
LBC and Radio 5.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Emma Thompson has intervened on Britain's future in Europe by urging the UK not to fall back to its 'cake-filled misery-laden grey old island'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz40LUibHAu


I swear people think this is a vote to leave Europe geographically and not just leave the EU