[Daniel.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

How is it worrying or insulting? Big Brother isn't a morality competition, nor is it a charity, nor is it real life. It, like most other TV shows, is a form of escapism and light entertainment and none of the results have any impact on society whatsoever

The argument that 'rewarding' (I use that term loosely) someone with a win on Big Brother has any kind of cultural significance is just silly, it's trash television that is increasingly irrelevant and such results have no reflection on people's own values

I don't watch the show in search of a new best friend I can relate to or to watch nice people having a chat, I'd go to the pub with friends if I wanted that

No but it is worrying that someone sees a contestant like Helen and votes for her to win, despite her clearly being a terrible person with insecurities flooding out of her and bullying anyone she can.

[Jason.]

That's why I said BB and not CBB.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

How is it worrying or insulting? Big Brother isn't a morality competition, nor is it a charity, nor is it real life. It, like most other TV shows, is a form of escapism and light entertainment and none of the results have any impact on society whatsoever

The argument that 'rewarding' (I use that term loosely) someone with a win on Big Brother has any kind of cultural significance is just silly, it's trash television that is increasingly irrelevant and such results have no reflection on people's own values

I don't watch the show in search of a new best friend I can relate to or to watch nice people having a chat, I'd go to the pub with friends if I wanted that

No but some morals have to come into though because it's like saying Amanada/Aaryn/Gina Marie actions are okay because BB isn't a morality competition.

[EspeonBB]

Loving Legend Gina's victory

[Dominic]

Originally Posted by LukeB

No but some morals have to come into though because it's like saying Amanada/Aaryn/Gina Marie actions are okay because BB isn't a morality competition.

and Judd, and Spencer, and McCrae, and Jeremy, and David

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

But if someone doesn't argue they get labelled a bore or fence sitter

This is simply not true, people like Pete, Brian Belo, Norin, Angel, Josie, Faye, Dexter, Mark, Steven were all huge parts of their series and they either didn't argue at all or did so sparingly

I certainly don't love all of those I just named but I definitely wouldn't call any of them boring

It's not about arguing, it's about having a presence in the series...actually contributing to it instead of floating through to the final never uttering a word

Originally Posted by LukeB

The way I saw it

BBs move to C5/BB12 - Dying slightly but could be saved
BB13/14 - getting better but still dying
BB15 - final blow to it's head
BB16- dead/zombie big brother

I'm on about the producers because they do things to make arguments happen because thats what the public want to watch which infact it's not what we all want to see. Someone who doesn't argue would be classed as boring.

And as I said last night, I also agree that C5's mantra of late to manufacture drama is atrocious and needs to stop. I'd still given the choice though take that over a show where nothing happens, that is what kills Big Brother stone dead

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Daniel.

No but it is worrying that someone sees a contestant like Helen and votes for her to win, despite her clearly being a terrible person with insecurities flooding out of her and bullying anyone she can.

No it isn't? First of all the bullying claims are completely subjective and personally I think the BB15 ones are all on the border and a lot rather tenuous, and secondly again - Big Brother is not a morality competition, I don't watch this show looking for someone I can relate to or a new friend, I watch it as a form of escapism (which is what it is) and to see things I wouldn't in my day to day life

Most of the people on BB I would never associate with and I'm fine with that it is not real life and has absolutely no reflection on the morals of those watching it or on society as a whole. It's just a trashy television show that airs for one hour a day on a screen in your living room

Originally Posted by LukeB

No but some morals have to come into though because it's like saying Amanada/Aaryn/Gina Marie actions are okay because BB isn't a morality competition.

Oh come on, you can't compare anything like Scumanda or Justin Sebik did or Aaryn or Joshuah said to nearly anything that's happened on BBUK, the two are just incomparable...there's been some vile people on our version but none have done anything as bad as those across the Atlantic.

[Daniel.]

No, the bullying is fact. She DID bully all of Chris, Christopher, Jale and tried to bully Ashleigh (of course the queen wouldn't let ha). She then went on to bully Brian in BB8.

All of that is fact to anyone who watches the show properly or to anyone who didn't fall for her final week edit, and personally I think liking certain housemates DOES show something about morals.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Oh come on, you can't compare anything like Scumanda or Justin Sebik did or Aaryn or Joshuah said to nearly anything that's happened on BBUK, the two are just incomparable...there's been some vile people on our version but none have done anything as bad as those across the Atlantic.

It was just an example where morals might come into it.

on our version: Dennis spitting in Darnell's face, Jade Goody on CBB5 stuff like that.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

How is it worrying or insulting? Big Brother isn't a morality competition, nor is it a charity, nor is it real life. It, like most other TV shows, is a form of escapism and light entertainment and none of the results have any impact on society whatsoever

The argument that 'rewarding' (I use that term loosely) someone with a win on Big Brother has any kind of cultural significance is just silly, it's trash television that is increasingly irrelevant and such results have no reflection on people's own values

I don't watch the show in search of a new best friend I can relate to or to watch nice people having a chat, I'd go to the pub with friends if I wanted that

If that's the case why does it offend you so much if someone you consider boring wins? I honestly couldn't care who wins the show as it doesn't affect my overall enjoyment of the series. However I still wouldn't want a bully like Helen to win over someone who was nice/dull just because she was a big character. Also it definitely is rewarding because lets not forget they get a huge amount of money for winning.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Daniel.

No, the bullying is fact. She DID bully all of Chris, Christopher, Jale and tried to bully Ashleigh (of course the queen wouldn't let ha). She then went on to bully Brian in BB8.

All of that is fact to anyone who watches the show properly or to anyone who didn't fall for her final week edit, and personally I think liking certain housemates DOES show something about morals.

She definitely didn't bully Chris, Christopher rightfully stood up for himself and the Jale thing is the closest but still not out and out bullying. The rest of the arguments she had were of equal weighting and two sided. The only instance of indisputable bullying with Helen was with Brian and it was disgusting

Watches the show properly? I think you mean people who watch the show as some kind of morality competition which it isn't. I didn't fall for her final week edit either, I liked her throughout and saw straight through the hilariously transparent attempts they made to help her out

You can think it all you like but it's nonsense and has no basis in reality. Maybe to people who watch the show and judge housemates as people (and yes there are a few of those with Helen ) but to people who judge housemates as housemates (which is kinda the point) like myself and a few others not in the slightest. I have never not acknowledged Helen's an atrocious person, but within the confines of a trashy television show and the false, non-real life environment that is the Big Brother house I'm not judging her on that, I'm judging her as an objective contributor to the show

[*mazedsalv**]

But why Charlie 2nd?

She was useless. The fact she beat Hazel is a shock to my life.

Dan so underrated. But Gina rightfully wins.

[Samm]

The right winner

[Daniel.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

She definitely didn't bully Chris, Christopher rightfully stood up for himself and the Jale thing is the closest but still not out and out bullying. The rest of the arguments she had were of equal weighting and two sided. The only instance of indisputable bullying with Helen was with Brian and it was disgusting

Watches the show properly? I think you mean people who watch the show as some kind of morality competition which it isn't. I didn't fall for her final week edit either, I liked her throughout and saw straight through the hilariously transparent attempts they made to help her out

You can think it all you like but it's nonsense and has no basis in reality. Maybe to people who watch the show and judge housemates as people (and yes there are a few of those with Helen ) but to people who judge housemates as housemates (which is kinda the point) like myself and a few others not in the slightest. I have never not acknowledged Helen's an atrocious person, but within the confines of a trashy television show and the false, non-real life environment that is the Big Brother house I'm not judging her on that, I'm judging her as an objective contributor to the show

She started a whisper campaign about Jale and Chris, called them names as she walked past them, turned others against them and made them feel isolated and ****. It's bullying at it's most obvious.

Helen contributed nothing but negativity and spitefulness though. She took from the series more than she gave. Without her the housemates would have shined more and had more fun without being in fear or being shouted down by Helen, every housemate said so. She's a ****ing awful person as she was a ****ing awful housemate, and her presence kept the dynamic stagnant and boring. It was like the same show every day. Wow hoe entertaining.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by *mazedsalv**

But why Charlie 2nd?

She was useless. The fact she beat Hazel is a shock to my life.

Dan so underrated. But Gina rightfully wins.

drag her

[Jordan.]

It's because of people who championed Helen to win she came back 10 times worse to Brian. Well done those people who don't view BB as a morality contest!

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

If that's the case why does it offend you so much if someone you consider boring wins? I honestly couldn't care who wins the show as it doesn't affect my overall enjoyment of the series. However I still wouldn't want a bully like Helen to win over someone who was nice/dull just because she was a big character. Also it definitely is rewarding because lets not forget they get a huge amount of money for winning.

Because I've spent three months of my life invested in a show for a dreadful, undeserving ending. I feel the same if I finish a season of a drama and it ends disappointingly, it's like I wasted it all for nothing. I get that some people don't care who wins and I wish I could be the same but I can't, because it just takes the piss that someone can literally say and do nothing the entire series, hide in the background and float their way through to the final and then win usually because they're a ~nice~ attractive male. It also encourages people to do the same if they want to succeed (VTE enables this too) and it's the easiest, most counterproductive strategy ever

The money is where the 'it is not a charity' comes into it though, it's a secondary prize (the first being the title) for winning an entertainment programme and it should go to the person who has brought the most to it, or else we wouldn't have a show. Handing people the win cause they need the money or 'deserve it' is silly, Big Brother UK isn't a show driven by the money and it never has been, it's a byproduct of supposedly being crowned the best housemate of the series

[LukeB]

not being on a high horse but Helen winning really did give out the wrong message from a victim of bullying I was kind of offended the public condoned her behaviour because bullies should not get good things.

[Black Dagger]

Don't feel ashamed at all that I helped Helen get her 100k.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Daniel.

She started a whisper campaign about Jale and Chris, called them names as she walked past them, turned others against them and made them feel isolated and ****. It's bullying at it's most obvious.

Helen contributed nothing but negativity and spitefulness though. She took from the series more than she gave. Without her the housemates would have shined more and had more fun without being in fear or being shouted down by Helen, every housemate said so. She's a ****ing awful person as she was a ****ing awful housemate, and her presence kept the dynamic stagnant and boring. It was like the same show every day. Wow hoe entertaining.

I really don't ever recall her doing that to Chris, and Jale even said herself she didn't feel bullied both in and out of the show so doesn't that tell you everything? You have to remember we were watching a 48 minute version of a 24 hour day, there's no way of telling how she treated her for the rest of it - but I'd be more inclined to believe someone who lived with her and was on the receiving end of it

I can never buy into arguments about how 'if x wasn't there y would happen' because it's all hypothetical, it's like when people say 'we need to evict this person so this happens' well how do you know that? Time and time again it's been proven that series are dismantled by the eviction of integral housemates and then people complain it's boring and wonder why. It's better to view the show in the present rather than take a gamble on a whim, and BB15's cast were overall pretty dreadful, miserable people so there's no guaranteeing anything would've changed

Look, I get why people don't like BB15 and that's fine but personally I found it gripping from start to finish and to top it all off it had the most perfect, deserving finish with the first all-female final two. It's seriously underrated IMO

Originally Posted by Jordan.

It's because of people who championed Helen to win she came back 10 times worse to Brian. Well done those people who don't view BB as a morality contest!

Well actually what you're doing in saying that is absolving her of any blame for her own actions. Only Helen is in control of how far she takes it, there is no excusing what she did to Brian, winner of the show or not

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because I've spent three months of my life invested in a show for a dreadful, undeserving ending. I feel the same if I finish a season of a drama and it ends disappointingly, it's like I wasted it all for nothing. I get that some people don't care who wins and I wish I could be the same but I can't, because it just takes the piss that someone can literally say and do nothing the entire series, hide in the background and float their way through to the final and then win usually because they're a ~nice~ attractive male. It also encourages people to do the same if they want to succeed (VTE enables this too) and it's the easiest, most counterproductive strategy ever

The money is where the 'it is not a charity' comes into it though, it's a secondary prize (the first being the title) for winning an entertainment programme and it should go to the person who has brought the most to it, or else we wouldn't have a show. Handing people the win cause they need the money or 'deserve it' is silly, Big Brother UK isn't a show driven by the money and it never has been, it's a byproduct of supposedly being crowned the best housemate of the series

OK no shade but it sounds like you take the show too seriously if the winner affects your outlook like that. The GP generally doesn't care or remember who won whether they're boring or entertaining by the time the next series starts so it really not that big of a deal. Also you say it's not real life and it's just a light entertainment show so you should see it from the other side that the winner really doesn't matter.

[Pete.]

I agree that BB15 is underrated. Its still a bit tragic fuelled by Helen and her clique + awful production. I sense it will get BB10 acclaim in a few years time

[Cal.]

Not particularly bothered that other people are bothered by me liking Helen!

[Daniel.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I really don't ever recall her doing that to Chris, and Jale even said herself she didn't feel bullied both in and out of the show so doesn't that tell you everything? You have to remember we were watching a 48 minute version of a 24 hour day, there's no way of telling how she treated her for the rest of it - but I'd be more inclined to believe someone who lived with her and was on the receiving end of it

I can never buy into arguments about how 'if x wasn't there y would happen' because it's all hypothetical, it's like when people say 'we need to evict this person so this happens' well how do you know that? Time and time again it's been proven that series are dismantled by the eviction of integral housemates and then people complain it's boring and wonder why. It's better to view the show in the present rather than take a gamble on a whim, and BB15's cast were overall pretty dreadful, miserable people so there's no guaranteeing anything would've changed

Look, I get why people don't like BB15 and that's fine but personally I found it gripping from start to finish and to top it all off it had the most perfect, deserving finish with the first all-female final two. It's seriously underrated IMO



Well actually what you're doing in saying that is absolving her of any blame for her own actions. Only Helen is in control of how far she takes it, there is no excusing what she did to Brian, winner of the show or not

I don't care, I saw what I saw and SHE said in the house when Helen hated her in the DR that she felt isolated/bullied and cried. Of course when she was friends with/after the show she would say that as she was scared by Helen hence her becoming friends with her. She did used to say things like wasppp etc as christopher walked past with her gang, not an offensive word, but a bullying tactic.

BB15 was boring past the first three weeks because all it was was Helen and the lads having a smoke, I liked the first three weeks, I loved Ashleigh, it ended awfully though won by the woman who had made it worse than it could be.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well actually what you're doing in saying that is absolving her of any blame for her own actions. Only Helen is in control of how far she takes it, there is no excusing what she did to Brian, winner of the show or not

No I'm not absolving her at all, but maybe if people didn't make her feel like her behaviour in BB15 was good enough for her to be crowned the winner and given a 100k reward, she wouldn't have carried on being so vile.