[alex_front2]

This season would have been a great season for mid table sides to do some thing exciting. With Man U rapidly declining, the pressure mounting on Wenger and AFC's title prospects, and it becoming obvious within a month that Cheslea would not retain the title. West Ham and Spurs have risen to the challenge but Stoke, Everton and Soton have not, if anything they have regressed. Everton had a real chance to assert dominance over Liverpool. Where would they be if Chelsea and Man City were top 2? We all know Leicester are the big winners of the so called top 5 transition year.

These mid table teams have promised so much in previous seasons but have failed to catch fire . They have become mid table stables and far too inert and comfy in not progressing. What do they need to be a top 6 side. Last season Soton were brilliant , gaining a Europa place , Everton were challenging Arsenal for top 4 a couple of seasons ago, and Stoke have so many CL winners, a great young goal keeper and yet they are all so 'meh'. How can these teams kick on like West Ham? Everton have scored so many goals this season, have a brilliant squad yet they are some how floundering. Is it all Martinez's fault? Will the new investment change things?

[Alf]

The thing with Everton is they've attacked like a team at the top end of the table but defended like a team at the bottom.

It's frustrating as a fan, because we have some of the best young players in World football at the moment and should be challenging for a top 4 spot.

I think if we can hold on to our top young players, and add one or two strong defensive players, maybe a top keeper (if Man City get Nauer, then Hart would do for us), then I think we can be title contenders within the next few years.

I've given Martinez a bit of stick this season, but maybe I'm being a bit harsh. Because this is a young squad on the whole, and there's lot's of potential for improvement as these players mature individually and as a team.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I think mid table teams like Liverpool, Everton and Stoke aspire to be top 4 teams like say West Ham and that is good. If they keep plugging away who knows what could happen in say 10 to 20 years time?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think mid table teams like Liverpool, Everton and Stoke aspire to be top 4 teams like say West Ham and that is good. If they keep plugging away who knows what could happen in say 10 to 20 years time?

You've opened up a can of worms by putting Liverpool in that company.

Their fans still believe they're one of the World's best, because of what they won in the past.

[Z]

Who cares when West Ham are flying high? Now let's hope that Celtic **** up a few more times and allow Aberdeen to sweep to the win in the SPL.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Z

Who cares when West Ham are flying high? Now let's hope that Celtic **** up a few more times and allow Aberdeen to sweep to the win in the SPL.

[Nicky91]

well and Stoke now have a good player, Ibrahim Afellay


right, i think he's a very good player, but maybe another premier league is better for him, maybe he would be a good Manchester United player

[Babayaro.]

NOT Afellay

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

NOT Afellay

why not, he's a good player

[LeatherTrumpet]

And has a nice belt

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

And has a nice belt

yeah,

[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

And has a nice belt

did you see his goal that one time? 'twas a belter

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Alf

You've opened up a can of worms by putting Liverpool in that company.

Their fans still believe they're one of the World's best, because of what they won in the past.

Big clubs or clubs with a "history" be they Liverpool, Man U, Stoke need to stop banging on about the past. It's not what draws a lot of players now. There's a new world order and it's the smug elite clubs with decades of success that are the slowest to catch on. Man U are the biggest in England but Liverpool are a big club just in terms of local fans and psst glories but in terms of global brand it's declined since 1970s and 1980 heyday. Sanchez snubbed LFC as it's too far from London and joined Arsenal. I see West Ham , Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal as bigger than LFC.

Liverpool has a great fan base but so does Newcastle and AV. Top clubs have been so successful that when things changed and everyone else was innovating to get an edge they failed to adapt. Liverpool failed to adapt to the 1990s PL era after decades and decades of league one success. Man U bang on and on about the past? Who gives a monkey's? Fergies retired. Talk about the future. Players don't need to go to Man u for big wages. I'd be p*ssed as a footballer if Man U fans went on and on about Best, Cantona, RVN, CR7, Giggs, Robson as a new signing I'd like to go and make a mark.

Re Everton, not sure Mantinez is the answer.

[alex_front2]

What players do these teams need to kick on.

I still think Everton issues is not just defending but the manager.

[alex_front2]

Watching Stoke v Spurs.

Geeesh, Stoke City are sh*te. I know Butland is out and ther season is over, usual mid table mediocrity. But they boast CL winners. Arnautovic (Zlatan wannabe), Bojan, Shaqiri, Affelay all overrated. These are supposed to be top players. Might as well replace the lot with Crouch. Overrated and average foreign players annoy me a bit as they are supposed to be technically better so when so so players like overratedArnaautovic end up in PL its irksome as there are often . better Brits.If Mark "Lesley" Hughes and his scouting tram pulled their finger out, and actually looked in lower/ non league they would find British / Irish players just as mediocre or better.

Obviously mid table clubs are midtable for a rreason: inconsistant, not enough desire, not enough talent to push for top half finish, but to strong to be relegated etc but it feels all mid table clubs have stopped bothering to win. Fans are paying a fortune on tickets, bought season tickets. Managers of mid table clubs need to find better ways of motivating players to play when nothing is at stake eg no relegation battle, no title fight, no top 4 or Europa league place fight, FA Cup squad places etc. Too many mid table sides at this stage this season have shut up shop and gone to the beach.

[alex_front2]

West Brom just awful against Arsenal 2-0 to Gooners. WBA will next be in North London again against Spurs and will lose again.

[alex_front2]

Another pathetic performance by Stoke, losing 4-0 against Man City.

Affelay injury no excuse.

Why don't Stoke and WBA stick scarecrows on the pitch instead to get a better performance. Hate how Arnautovic thinks he's Zlatan.

And to think the Kric, Shaquiri, Arnautovic trio were being compared to Barce eg Stokelona etc