[LukeB]

@Jack_ How do you even know Cassandra wouldn't have beaten Kelsey in part 2 HOH... did you forget Kelsey won that by default? and don't forget the F4 veto comp..Cassandra was one minute behind Nick. Phil sucked at the last part of HOH so Cassandra could have easily beat him..and then Cassandra would have won BBCAN4

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

@Jack_ How do you even know Cassandra wouldn't have beaten Kelsey in part 2 HOH... did you forget Kelsey won that by default? and don't forget the F4 veto comp..Cassandra was one minute behind Nick. Phil sucked at the last part of HOH so Cassandra could have easily beat him..and then Cassandra would have won BBCAN4

The only comp Cass won this season wasn't even by her own doing, and yes she may have been a minute behind Nick in the F4 Veto but let's not forget Kelsey struggled to find the last clue (which isn't a test of memory, just finding something), had she done so she'd have been in second

There was no way she was winning part one, and I still don't think she'd have won part two or three either. She may have studied but not nearly as much as the brothers or Kelsey did, even if Phil did suck in part three

And again, Kelsey was never going to keep Cass. People can keep peddling this 'Tim should have quit for Cass' all they like, but it wasn't his Veto, he wasn't voting...it's not up to him. The brothers, Kelsey and him made a pact and her loyalty was evidently not going to waiver so Cass wasn't going to make F3 ever. Had Tim or Cass won the F4 Veto, at least one of them would have been guaranteed F2 and they would've won this season

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. Like, before the final I would have said the brothers winning was worst case scenario, but when it came down to the F2 I realised that personal feelings aside, they deserved it more, and Kelsey just came across like she couldn't care less.

I felt annoyed at Tim watching the final too, but thinking about it, he can't really be blamed for Cass not getting further, she has to take responsibility for herself, and it shouldn't really be up to Tim to carry her. At the time, when he had the choice of saving Cass, he didn't feel like he was ready to leave, and he wanted to win etc, and even if that changed later on, it's still fair enough that he felt like that at the time and made his decision based on it. It was up to him to play the game how he chooses and as much as I love her, Cass is the only one who can really be blamed for leaving when she did.

Her answers were terrible like Phil's (luckily he had Nick) but Kelsey's speech is the worst ever speech I've ever seen, she studied the comps but didn't think of a good speech.

It just annoys me when people quit comps when it's important for them to win it because Tim should have known if he didn't win that then he's guaranteed 3rd place. In season 3, 2 people quit a comp which was important for them and their alliance. But I know he shouldn't be the blame for Cassandra going.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The only comp Cass won this season wasn't even by her own doing, and yes she may have been a minute behind Nick in the F4 Veto but let's not forget Kelsey struggled to find the last clue (which isn't a test of memory, just finding something), had she done so she'd have been in second

There was no way she was winning part one, and I still don't think she'd have won part two or three either. She may have studied but not nearly as much as the brothers or Kelsey did, even if Phil did suck in part three

And again, Kelsey was never going to keep Cass. People can keep peddling this 'Tim should have quit for Cass' all they like, but it wasn't his Veto, he wasn't voting...it's not up to him. The brothers, Kelsey and him made a pact and her loyalty was evidently not going to waiver so Cass wasn't going to make F3 ever. Had Tim or Cass won the F4 Veto, at least one of them would have been guaranteed F2 and they would've won this season

Did you forget she won veto by herself a mental one? She had a stronger chance at winning part 2 tbh and deffo part 3 because Phil didn't even know anything.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Did you forget she won veto by herself a mental one? She had a stronger chance at winning part 2 tbh and deffo part 3 because Phil didn't even know anything.

Ah yes so she did, but it's still pointless arguing the toss over this because it didn't matter - once they lost the F4 Veto she wasn't making F3 and I don't see how you envisage her doing so?

[Macie Lightfoot]

okay I know people are going to hate Kelsey no matter what but her speech was def not the worst ever lol like GinaMarie and Liz just happened.

[Jack_]

^ the brothers and Kelsey were as bad as each other and I'd put them both on par with them tbh

Honestly one of the most embarrassing jury questioning and final statement segments I've ever seen

[Jamie89]

I've never seen a jury speech before and I cringed at both of them tbh The brothers' was better though, yes they stumbled a few times but they put more passion into it.

[Jack_]

This should've been Kelsey's speech

[Jack_]

Arisa nailed it on Twitter the other day tbh, this jury was obsessed with 'owning your game' and both Kelsey and the brothers completely misread them, constantly trying to make out they never lied or did anything wrong

Mitch and Joel actually even deliberately gave Kelsey the opportunity to show how she had some kind of strategy to earn their vote and she just kept regurgitating 'I was loyal to my friends you know, I love Jared and Raul so much, I didn't want to lie in this game'. This is probably one of the only instances in North American BB history where the vote was actually determined on finale night. She blew it

[LukeB]

It makes me sad how this F3 is the worst F3 ever. Tim was the most vile housemate in there until Jared started being horrible towards females and bros went into Xenophobia mode.

[Jack_]

Tim was never ever as vile as Jared at any point, he was never vile at all

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Tim was never ever as vile as Jared at any point, he was never vile at all

How can you say Tim bringing up Nikki's illness during an argument is not vile?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

How can you say Tim bringing up Nikki's illness during an argument is not vile?

omg are we still going on about this, yes it was vile but it was once! What else did he do that was so vile? Shout in the DR? oh yeah such a crime

If Nikki can forgive him then I don't see the issue, this was one instance like two months ago that doesn't make someone a 'vile person', he has nothing on Jared and the brothers

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

omg are we still going on about this, yes it was vile but it was once! What else did he do that was so vile? Shout in the DR? oh yeah such a crime

If Nikki can forgive him then I don't see the issue, this was one instance like two months ago that doesn't make someone a 'vile person', he has nothing on Jared and the brothers

BIB. Since when have I been against shouting in the DR? I'm not one of those people who thinks shouting is worse than racism and I'm a fan of Zach Rance/Johhny Mac.

It was a ****ed up comment and it was one of the worst things to be said of BBCAN4 until the bros xenophobia(if they weren't xenophobic then they wouldn't have been that bad because most of the cast treated others terribly). He was a vile person at the time but Jared and the bros took over that title.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

BIB. Since when have I been against shouting in the DR? I'm not one of those people who thinks shouting is worse than racism and I'm a fan of Zach Rance/Johhny Mac.

It was a ****ed up comment and it was one of the worst things to be said of BBCAN4 until the bros xenophobia(if they weren't xenophobic then they wouldn't have been that bad because most of the cast treated others terribly). He was a vile person at the time but Jared and the bros took over that title.

I know, so then what else is it that makes him a 'vile person'? One isolated incident does not define a person, Jared's misogyny was on-going, as was the brothers xenophobia, as was Aaryn's racism, as was Scumanda's bullying. These all define a person. One comment, as vile as it may have been, said in the the heat of an argument does not define somebody and the insinuation that it does is really quite stupid

He was never a 'vile person'

[Jack_]

Talking of Jun she wrote this and it's really good

http://jundishes.com/2016/05/14/what...4-meant-to-me/