[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Jack_

And lastly, do ~official~ classifications of what is and isn't a 'terrorist' act really matter? Often they are laced in institutionalised racism and quite frankly any person or people who commit an act of mass murder in an instance like this is a terrorist. Who or what they connected to is completely irrelevant when giving them the label.

wait you mean terrorism isn't just a brown person killing people??????

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by TomC

Of course he did. And although it's highly likely, we don't know for a fact that it was an attack on the LGBT community exclusively, and in addition to this, this attack affects everyone, for that very reason.

What I take issue with is him saying 'you don't understand, you're not gay.' That is completely incorrect, as we don't know his exact motive, and the fact he's trying to narrow it down to homophobia, when in fact it's a much wider issue of radical Islam that's the issue.

It's clear to me, he went to a gay venue ergo he was targeting gays.
If it had been a Jewish venue it would instantly be seen (quite rightly) as antisemitic, so why can this not be stated as a homophobic terrorist attack?

I don't believe those outside the communities affected by prejudice can know, they can empathise and be repulsed but can't fully understand.

[Shaun]

Aside from the fact he targeted a gay club and the interview with his father:

Meanwhile Mateen's father told NBC News the attack "had nothing to do with religion".

Seddique Mateen said his son became "very angry" after seeing two men kissing in downtown Miami recently.

I'm not sure how much more clear it needs to be that the motivation for this attack was homophobic...

[Braden]

Hasn't his Dad made comments about how 'god will deal with the homosexuals'?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Owen Jones walks out after reporters downplay homophobia in this act.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ow...-a7078891.html

The reporter is saying but this is not worst than the Paris attacks but that's not the point Owen was making. This clip is the equivalent of "black lives matter" and people replying with yes but All lives matter.

..I think that CeeCee associated it well with 'Black Lives Matter'...these hate killings couldn't have happened to anyone, like they were saying in the vid..'it could have been any of us..'..but no, they could have only happened to the LGBT community because that was the only target of his hate and terrorism..but they just didn't hear Owen's words or acknowledge them...all of the other factors that were discussed also came into play..(which he acknowledged ..)..but they couldn't take a moment for that one thing, which was the most important fact of all...

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's clear to me, he went to a gay venue ergo he was targeting gays.
If it had been a Jewish venue it would instantly be seen (quite rightly) as antisemitic, so why can this not be stated as a homophobic terrorist attack?

I don't believe those outside the communities affected by prejudice can know, they can empathise and be repulsed but can't fully understand.

Spot on Kizzy

[Black Dagger]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Owen rightly showed up that abhorrent waste of a channel they call Sky News up for what they are. This was a deliberate, targeted attack on the LGBT community by a man who had openly said he was revulsed by homosexuality. If you can't see that then you shouldn't even be commenting on the story to be quite honest.

People will bend over backwards to try and pretend that this incident has nothing to do with guns but as many have said, it absolutely does. The fact that a civilian can get their hands on a weapon of the ilk that LeatherTrumpet posted is absolutely ****ing astounding, there is no reason whatsoever why anyone should be able to walk into a store and purchase something like that without extremely thorough background checks. It is beyond comprehension.

And lastly, do ~official~ classifications of what is and isn't a 'terrorist' act really matter? Often they are laced in institutionalised racism and quite frankly any person or people who commit an act of mass murder in an instance like this is a terrorist. Who or what they connected to is completely irrelevant when giving them the label.

Said it better than what I was going too, their behaviour was abhorrent. Telling him he couldn't have ownership of a tragedy just because he's gay as well. It was a farce from the beginning and he did right getting out of it.

[nicole_burks]

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

[MB.]

Nicole

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by nicole_burks

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

Nicole I'm so sorry

[Braden]

Originally Posted by nicole_burks

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

I know apologizing doesn't do anything but I'm genuinely so sorry, Nicole. My thoughts have been with Orlando and the victims and their families all day

[Glenn.]

Nicole

[Ross.]

Nicole

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Barack Obama said there was no indication that the gunman who shot 49 people dead at Pulse in Orlando had been directed from abroad and called the atrocity “an example of home-grown extremism”.

“It appears that the shooter was inspired by various extremist information that was disseminated over the internet,” the President said.

“It does appear that at the last minute he announced allegiance to Isil (Isis) but there is no evidence so far that he was in fact directed by Isil or that it was part of a larger plot.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7079051.html

I dont see how that matters. If he says he was an ISIS terrorist then he was. Their aim is to recruit and inspire and they have achieved their aim.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Can't blame Owen for walking out, those other two idiots were trying to erase the LGBT angle which is just plain insulting.

I thought Owen behaved like a petulant self serving brat. Pretty much how I imagined left wing Guardian journalists to be actually.

[Jack_]

He's not a journalist

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by nicole_burks

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

Hope all's good

I was watching a Disney scoper earlier and he was saying how everyone in Orlando is rallying around in support with long lines to donate blood and stuff which is nice to hear

[Shaun]

So... self-hatred to its extreme I guess?

[Rob!]

The whole thing is just another terrifying example of just how easy it is to kill people on a mass scale. Arguing about the gun laws is completely relevant because the shooting was committed in a country where it is a lot easier to get hold of guns. The Paris attacks were essentially an attack on France rather than a specific demographic of people but the fact remains it is still a terror attack. But one psychopath being an ISIS supporter and claiming he did it for ISIS does not make this an ISIS attack. As others have said, they will take the credit because above all else, it makes them an even more terrifying entity to the rest of the world.
As a gay man it saddens and actually really scares me that an attack on this scale has happened to the community that I am a part of and that I think is where Owen was coming from. I've been the victim of homophobic abuse and attacks before (physical violence, insults etc) and was left feeling shocked and so so saddened as the realisation that there are people out there that think that because of your sexuality you deserve to suffer - or, in this case, die actually hits you in retrospect.

[Liberty4eva]

Interesting how some in the gay community are upset that the topic is being diverted to gun control and Trump which are far easier to discuss than some in Islam hating gays. I found another interview of an angry gay journalist from the UK on the BBC complaining about this. I found it really rich how they twist what he says at the 6:40 mark. They were saying that he was complaining about how America wasn't discussing what needed to be discussed. Actually he was complaining about how the BBC was ignoring the issue!

Youtube video

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by nicole_burks

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

...awww Nicole....I'm so sorry for the loss of your friends and those who were part of their lives....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

I dont see how that matters. If he says he was an ISIS terrorist then he was. Their aim is to recruit and inspire and they have achieved their aim.

It isn't the same though, a targeted pre planned act of international terrorism is different to domestic terrorism regardless of whether they are carried out in the name of the same extremist faction.

[bitontheslide]

If the guy was a regular at the club, then it begins to take on the same profile as that previous attack by the married couple that attacked a place well known to them

[Kizzy]

I agree with Shaun that it stemmed from self loathing.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shaun

So... self-hatred to its extreme I guess?

Yes it looks that way