[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

'the truth', you and I have disagreed a lot in the recent past but I do remember when we agreed far more.

While I agree with most of what you have in the post above and I do too feel for Corbyn and do accept he uncomfortably went down the party line, I just cannot see how in any scenario anywhere,where someone can lead if the people he is leading and in this case it is MPs,don't want him to.

They are the people he has to have in the main supporting him.
You know I have joined labour and it is awful witnessing this chaos.

However your post is really balanced,from immigration to the EU and the common market as was, I found myself agreeing more and more as I went through it.
You make a lot of valid points all through.

I also laughed at a particular few words you slotted in there as to 'an invisible Lib Dem leader'.

Well said to that whole post and really I mean that.

glad we agree on the majority

corbyn won by a members landslide and he would win again, its only the elite westminster mps who want him out, because they want to return to neo liberal values and they think they have an opportunity to over turn brexit

[Withano]

Only negative things have happened since the refferendum. Out campaign has a lot to prove

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Withano

Only negative things have happened since the refferendum. Out campaign has a lot to prove

like what?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

like what?

"What negative things" or "what to prove"?

For the first... endless, both domestically and internationally, but as I said in the other thread you don't want to hear about them / will flat out deny them no matter what so it's pointless to go over that.

If you meant "What do they have to prove?"... the answer is anything. Anything at all. Just one positive thing would be nice. I'm aware that it's early days and the answer is likely to just be "Oh just give it time"... so time it will be given... but they still - in time - have a LOT to prove.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"What negative things" or "what to prove"?

For the first... endless, both domestically and internationally, but as I said in the other thread you don't want to hear about them / will flat out deny them no matter what so it's pointless to go over that.

If you meant "What do they have to prove?"... the answer is anything. Anything at all. Just one positive thing would be nice. I'm aware that it's early days and the answer is likely to just be "Oh just give it time"... so time it will be given... but they still - in time - have a LOT to prove.

Withano made a rather silly post that only negative things have happened since the ref so I asked him like what?

You know to try and find out what on earth it means

[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Withano made a rather silly post that only negative things have happened since the ref so I asked him like what?

You know to try and find out what on earth it means

Toy Soldier has answered it for me, I'd like to add a divided nation, the uncertainty of global, european and british politics and the steep incline of british racism and xenophobia. The lies that lead to victory has been condemned by the people who supported the lies and the realisation that our political leaders are ruthless and untrustworthy is deeply saddening. Farages speech to the eu council was dangerous immature and irresponsible and huge businesses like Virgin losing a third of heir wealth. there has been literally zero pros to us leaving so far.

I dont feel like you could have missed any of this happening, so it seems more like denial from your part but yes they have a lot to prove, they no longer have to just slightly improve, they now have to also reverse this damage.

My post was not pro eu, it was just realistic. There is no way that you, I or anybody else could know whether leaving it is a good thing for at least three years. But right now, 29th of June 2016, we can conclude that it was the wrong decision. This could change.

[user104658]

Genuine question here Kirk but what makes you think any of those companies would still be manufacturing in the UK without EU membership / EU interference? Operating and labour costs are, just on a very basic level, far lower abroad... these companies left for their own financial bottom line and I'm not seeing why that would be ANY different unless you are advocating the UK also paying abysmally low wages in order to keep "up" with competing labour forces?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Genuine question here Kirk but what makes you think any of those companies would still be manufacturing in the UK without EU membership / EU interference? Operating and labour costs are, just on a very basic level, far lower abroad... these companies left for their own financial bottom line and I'm not seeing why that would be ANY different unless you are advocating the UK also paying abysmally low wages in order to keep "up" with competing labour forces?

If you ran your own company T.S. in Britain prior to us joining the European Union, and rising Government taxation (deliberate by the way) was affecting you, in addition to higher wage levels, and you could move to another country where taxes and wages were lower, but that move was going to cost you £millions - you would not be so eager to make that decision to move.

If you KNEW that a multi million pound low interest loan was available in addition to a muti million pound grant (dependant on area) you would NOT think twice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Youtube video

[Johnnyuk123]

I'd like to say that i can't believe how corrupt the EU is but i would be lying!
Absolutely amazing posts full of facts once again Kirk! Well done!

Thankfully the future is now looking brighter thanks to Nigel Farage.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

I'd like to say that i can't believe how corrupt the EU is but i would be lying!
Absolutely amazing posts full of facts once again Kirk! Well done!

Thankfully the future is now looking brighter thanks to Nigel Farage.

Yes he started taking Daves men
we got OUR EU Vote


And Good on DAVID CAMERON
telling everyone (before the vote)
who voted No 2nd chance
and dragging the pathetic USA President over


Cheers Dave