[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Heavy wanted the girl,...Heavy thought he could just have her....Heavy treated her like dirt....then when he couldn't have her and she chose someone else Heavy turned aggressive and threatening....Like King Kong.
Any action on Bears part was a direct reaction to the agression being projected from Heavy.
The garden and the bottle is a separate incident and that is where Bear scored a home goal...because if he had just held it together a bit longer we would all be having conversations about Heavys threatening and intimidating loss of control....but the fact is very clear...the first person and only person to make threats was Heavy the night before when he turned on Bear thinking he had vandalised his bed. The person making threats in the bedroom was Heavy.
I can understand why Bear felt it so unfare that he was locked up like a criminal and Heavy got off Scott free and was tucked up in his bed.

But no way Chloe would even look at D regardless of Bear

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Bear has done a lot of things wrong but that's CBB...Tiffay, Frankie Cacozza, Frenchie, Denise Welch, James Jordan are some examples....but Bear hasn't done the things wrong he's being accused of....he hasn't behaved as badly as Heavy D, Aubrey and in some people's opinion Biggins...he hasn't threatened anyone or turned aggressive with anyone...both times he's lost his cool he was alone ..and he hasn't spit in someone's food and he hasn't labelled people unstable like Siara did about him.
He's no angel and people either want to see that or they don't but IMO BB locked the wrong person in the diary room.

Wasting our time here hot2go,I hate prejudice so am off this thread.
Good luck to you and I think you are spot on for the record, and being fair.

Really stunned at some of the unexpected lines some have taken here,people I believed were fair.

I would love to see how they really reacted to being forcibly locked in small room for not threatening anyone and not being told how long they would be there, not also being able to talk to anyone else directly face to face either.

I actually think as I certainly would for sure, they would be furious and demand to be out.

No one here has said he didn't do some wrong, he did not do all the wrong but no way should be forced to be locked up for an indefinite period.
This thread has changed my mind on how I see some on here.
Really dismays me.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Wasting our time here hot2go,I hate prejudice so am off this thread.
Good luck to you and I think you are spot on for the record, and being fair.

Really stunned at some of the unexpected lines some have taken here,people I believed were fair.

I would love to see how they really reacted to being forcibly locked in small room for not threatening anyone and not being told how long they would be there, not also being able to talk to anyone else directly face to face either.

I actually think as I certainly would for sure, they would be furious and demand to be out.

No one here has said he didn't do some wrong, he did not do all the wrong but no way should be forced to be locked up for an indefinite period.
This thread has changed my mind on how I see some on here.
Really dismays me.

Me too Joey

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Wasting our time here hot2go,I hate prejudice so am off this thread.
Good luck to you and I think you are spot on for the record, and being fair.

Really stunned at some of the unexpected lines some have taken here,people I believed were fair.

I would love to see how they really reacted to being forcibly locked in small room for not threatening anyone and not being told how long they would be there, not also being able to talk to anyone else directly face to face either.

I actually think as I certainly would for sure, they would be furious and demand to be out.

No one here has said he didn't do some wrong, he did not do all the wrong but no way should be forced to be locked up for an indefinite period.
This thread has changed my mind on how I see some on here.
Really dismays me.

This thread hasn't changed my mind on how I see some people it just reinforced it

Maybe this time next week they will all dislike Heavy D just like they dislike Biggins after calling him a National Treasure for the previous seven days .

[Jan S]

you know i don't like bear, but this thread is another example along the lines of the charlie-jason dichotomy: bear seems to be able to polarise opinions.

the scary thing is people are all watching the same thing - but seeing something completely different to eachother.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Bear has not threatened anyone, Heavy D has.... Bear has not said anything offensive that warrants removal, Biggins has... Bear has never lost his temper in the company of others, Heavy D has. Bear has not violated another housemate, Marnie has.
Bear is a wind up merchant but its Heavy who made threats and its Heavy D who still holds a grudge as shown in last nights noms. Heavy D is the loose cannon in that house right now not Bear.

I agree with some of your points...Bear is a wind up merchant...he pushes people's buttons for a reaction. He accused Saira of trying to get a reaction from him and didn't like it.
Bear incites bad feeling and speaks to people like ****. He has no respect for anyone but himself and throws his toys out the Pram when things backfire. He has done nothing so far to get thrown out...but let's not forget he has had several warnings that we are not privy to.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Garfie

You are right in saying he hadn't physically hurt anyone, but his repeated unpleasant and drunken behaviour was clearly making others feels very uncomfortable and unsafe, and I think that's the point Ammi was trying to make. BB clearly said he had been warned repeatedly for such behaviour.

When someone is very drunk, has a volatile personality and is doing all he can to antagonise and provoke reactions in other, it makes for a very tense and unnerving situation- I wouldn't have wanted to have to be one of the other housemates in those circumstances and I would have been very uncomfortable had he been allowed back into the house or garden. You've looked at this from Bear's side but perhaps the other housemates were experiencing more fear than you've realised?

That has to balanced when considering Bear being locked in the diary room. What you've said yourself indicates that had Bear and Heavy D been placed together again there was every possibility of an escalation in events. Heavy D was calmer and had just wanted to sleep, whereas Bear was very drunk and intent on instigating some sort of conflict. I think this was a pattern BB had recognised, and was referring to when they reminded Bear he had been repeatedly warned. Therefore, keeping Bear separated was a logical conclusion.

Bear needs to learn to accept that actions have consequences and, if you behave inappropriately, then unfortunately those consequences are not likely to be ones you like- such as being locked in the DR whilst they are sorting out alternative accommodation, and ensuring that his calmer mood was going to last (something that is in doubt when people are very drunk and have a volatile personality).

When all's said and done, being expected to just sit, wait and calm down was not really such a big deal. Had his reaction truly been about claustrophobia rather than drunkeness, I am sure he would have raised this as a serious concern the following day, rather than just apologising, making jokes about kissing Chloe and continuing his familiar pattern of behaviour.

Excellent post, and Ammi's too.
I just don't get why keeping a volatile and drunk Bear in the DR until they put something in place is being focused on so much, maybe as a way of diverting people away from his bad behaviour? It isn't the first time someone has been kept in the DR and it won't be the last.

For Bear fans only - Reverse the situation -
If a drunken Heavy who had already had repeated warnings had deliberately tried to provoke Bear, went and sat down near to him when he knew he was angry, then went into the garden and threw a glass with all his might that smashed a window that a camera man could have been behind, would any Bear supporters be making all sort of excuses for Heavy? Would you be criticising Bear for getting angry at Heavy provoking him? Would any of you care that Heavy had been kept in the DR, would you be saying how scandalous it is? Be honest.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Excellent post, and Ammi's too.
I just don't get why keeping a volatile and drunk Bear in the DR until they put something in place is being focused on so much, maybe as a way of diverting people away from his bad behaviour? It isn't the first time someone has been kept in the DR and it won't be the last.

For Bear fans only - Reverse the situation -
If a drunken Heavy who had already had repeated warnings had deliberately tried to provoke Bear, went and sat down near to him when he knew he was angry, then went into the garden and threw a glass with all his might that smashed a window that a camera man could have been behind, would any Bear supporters be making all sort of excuses for Heavy? Would you be criticising Bear for getting angry at Heavy provoking him? Would any of you care that Heavy had been kept in the DR, would you be saying how scandalous it is? Be honest.

Excuse me, I am always honest and I have repeatedly outlined here why I think falsely imprisoning anyone is wrong.

What I haven't seen from anyone is an honest answer as to would they just sit back and accept being locked in a small room, not able to see or talk to anyone face to face,and also not being told the exact amount of time they would be kept in there, or would they be mad at that if they had not physically threatened anyone as in this case.

Furthermore, I for one have 'repeatedly' said I would be outraged no matter what housemate was in that position,whether I liked them or not, so I have actually already answered your question.


I generally agree with Ammi, I most certainly do not on this one and I doubt if it was a housemate that was liked you and some others would be not be agreeing that it was wrong to in effect lock someone up against their will.

Never mind we learn things everyday as to how people think and just for the record too, I am not a Bear fan, I do not want him to win but I would, I repeat, be making the same argument I am for him for any other housemate falsely imprisoned against their will, and that is what it was,for any amount of time.
No matter what I thought of the housemate

You may think that right, I for sure do not, no way, never.
Just because it has happened before for differing circumstances also still does not make it right.

However I have not yet come across any housemate being forced to be in the locked diary room,against their will and not being told how long it will be before they will be allowed out.
Even usually it is asked if they want another housemate with them.

He was before the throwing object actually less volatile than heavy D was,yet you conveniently bypass heavy D's part in this getting more aggravated than it possibly needed to be.
Heavy D however comes out angelic in this, yet he was the one perving on a younger female and what she was doing with Bear, watching their every move from a distance determined to also get an argument with Bear as to that..
That's pretty sick to me actually..

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Excuse me, I am always honest and I have repeatedly outlined here why I think falsely imprisoning anyone is wrong.

What I haven't seen from anyone is an honest answer as to would they just sit back and accept being locked in a small room, not able to see or talk to anyone face to face,and also not being told the exact amount of time they would be kept in there, or would they be mad at that if they had not physically threatened anyone as in this case.

Furthermore, I for one have said I would be outraged no matter what housemate was in that position,whether I liked them or not, so I have actually already answered your question.


I generally agree with Ammi, I do not on this one and I doubt if it was a housemate that was liked you and some others would be not be agreeing that it was wrong to in effect lock someone up against their will.

Never mind we learn things everyday as to how people think and just for the record too, I am not a Bear fan, I do not want him to win but I would, I repeat, be making the same argument I am for him for any other housemate falsely imprisoned against their will, and that is what it was,for any amount of time.
No matter what I thought of the housemate

You may think that right, I for sure do not, no way, never.
Just because it has happened before for differing circumstances also still does not make it right.

However I have not yet come across any housemate being forced to be in the locked diary room,against their will and not being told how long it will be before they will be allowed out.
Even usually it is asked if they want another housemate with them.

He was before the throwing object actually less volatile than heavy D was,yet you conveniently bypass heavy D's part in this getting more aggravated than it possibly needed to be.
Heavy D however comes out angelic in this, yet he was the one perving on a younger female and what she was doing with Bear, watching their every move from a distance determined to also get an argument with Bear as to that..
That's pretty sick to me actually..

My post was for Bear supporters and you have already said you don't care for him.
My honest answer to your question is if I had thrown a glass with all my might and broken a window I would be in no position to argue with anyone who wanted to keep me locked in a room until they got a bed ready for me. It wouldn't be something that would particularly bother me. Call me a liar if you like, but that is the truth. It is probably written in the BB manual that this could happen to HM's if BB deems it necessary.
I don't like Bear OR Heavy D, but Heavy was lying in his bed minding his own business and NOT looking for an argument when Bear came in and proceeded to try to provoke him. Do you agree with this? Whether Heavy is perving on Chloe or not, is a different discussion, what is relevant is that Bear was again winding him up by kissing her when Heavy was around and watching, so Heavy was already wound up when Bear came into the bedroom. Then when Heavy gets angry HE is wrong, but Bear isn't...?
On that occasion Heavy didn't break anything, he wasn't drunk and he hadn't had previous warnings for aggressive behaviour as far as we know. Bear did break something, he was under the influence of drink, and he had had previous warnings.

Everyone has things that pushes their buttons and gets them angry. On this occasion yours is someone being locked in a room against their will for a period of time, mine is someone repeatedly and deliberately provoking another person to get an angry reaction, no matter who it is doing the provoking. We are all different and one man's meat is another man's poison. Just because what gets your goat up is different than what gets someone else's up doesn't mean you are being fair and other people aren't.
You obviously feel very strongly about this issue and I respect that, but feeling differently about people because they don't feel the same as you I can't respect.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

My post was for Bear supporters and you have already said you don't care for him.
My honest answer to your question is if I had thrown a glass with all my might and broken a window I would be in no position to argue with anyone who wanted to keep me locked in a room until they got a bed ready for me. It wouldn't be something that would particularly bother me. Call me a liar if you like, but that is the truth. It is probably written in the BB manual that this could happen to HM's if BB deems it necessary.
I don't like Bear OR Heavy D, but Heavy was lying in his bed minding his own business and NOT looking for an argument when Bear came in and proceeded to try to provoke him. Do you agree with this? Whether Heavy is perving on Chloe or not, is a different discussion, what is relevant is that Bear was again winding him up by kissing her when Heavy was around and watching, so Heavy was already wound up when Bear came into the bedroom. Then when Heavy gets angry HE is wrong, but Bear isn't...?
On that occasion Heavy didn't break anything, he wasn't drunk and he hadn't had previous warnings for aggressive behaviour as far as we know. Bear did break something, he was under the influence of drink, and he had had previous warnings.

Everyone has things that pushes their buttons and gets them angry. On this occasion yours is someone being locked in a room against their will for a period of time, mine is someone repeatedly and deliberately provoking another person to get an angry reaction, no matter who it is doing the provoking. We are all different and one man's meat is another man's poison. Just because what gets your goat up is different than what gets someone else's up doesn't mean you are being fair and other people aren't.
You obviously feel very strongly about this issue and I respect that, but feeling differently about people because they don't feel the same as you I can't respect.

There are people on here I have respected for a long time who I believed to be fairer than they have been on this issue and who I am stunned at their stance on anyone being falsely imprisoned, when so many options were and should have been used.
They have just finished a task where the artificials slept separately anyway, it should have been that a room was instantly ready.
I am actually stunned you or anyone thinks that throwing something and breaking a mirror should warrant someone being locked up.
Had he gone to or had hit someone,even with the object, then I'd agree.
he did not and he threw the object knowing not a single person was anywhere near him.
Yet you would have society lock someone up for that, god help society then.


It was Heavy D who came out of his supposed sleep, a sleep he was perfectly able to sleep even with so many others talking in the bedroom but not however and oddly as soon as Bear came in.
Hardly minding his own business in my view as you describe.

He was, in my view, more likely waiting for Bear to come in, to then use any opportunity to get at him for him being madly and pathetically jealous of him and Chloe.
You can excuse and bypass that all you like.

Anyway, there it is and quite frankly now I couldn't care what you think of me or whether you respect or disrespect me either jet.

[Jake.]

of course he did something wrong lol

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]


There are people on here I have respected for a long time who I believed to be fairer than they have been on this issue and who I am stunned at their stance on anyone being falsely imprisoned, when so many options were and should have been used.
They have just finished a task where the artificials slept separately anyway, it should have been that a room was instantly ready.
I am actually stunned you or anyone thinks that throwing something and breaking a mirror should warrant someone being locked up.
Had he gone to or had hit someone,even with the object, then I'd agree.
he did not and he threw the object knowing not a single person was anywhere near him.
Yet you would have society lock someone up for that, god help society then.


It was Heavy D who came out of his supposed sleep, a sleep he was perfectly able to sleep even with so many others talking in the bedroom but not however and oddly as soon as Bear came in.
Hardly minding his own business in my view as you describe.

He was, in my view, more likely waiting for Bear to come in, to then use any opportunity to get at him for him being madly and pathetically jealous of him and Chloe.
You can excuse and bypass that all you like.

Anyway, there it is and quite frankly now I couldn't care what you think of me or whether you respect or disrespect me either jet.

I said I respected your feelings on the matter, what I didn't respect was you saying you felt differently about people who didn't feel as you do.
What more can I say? Pretend I agree with you when I don't see it as big an issue as you?
And of course I respect you, I think very highly of you indeed. I think your emotions on this subject are running very high and I understand how that feels. Peace my friend.

[Clootie Dumpling]

"Bear did absolutely nothing wrong"?

Bollocks!

[calyman]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I find D more threatening and more of a danger to others

It's clear that both bear and Lewis have the same capacity for physical violence. As for heavy D's pretend boxing stand when Lewis jumped out the pool,....that had me in stiches. Heavy d really brought those thugs down a few notches when he humiliated them and their little thieving gang.

[Ian Coke]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's his father who did something wrong. He should have worn a condom.

Yeah, I do wonder about the parents. Presumably, they're delighted that he's not living with them, at least while he's appearing on reality TV, but going to the shops must be a bit harrowing. 'Your boy is a credit to you, Mr & Mrs Bear' is a conversation that I suspect has never happened.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Ian Coke

Yeah, I do wonder about the parents. Presumably, they're delighted that he's not living with them, at least while he's appearing on reality TV, but going to the shops must be a bit harrowing. 'Your boy is a credit to you, Mr & Mrs Bear' is a conversation that I suspect has never happened.

He's still young, so he will grow up eventually But i do like his confidence and he's quite funny.

[Ian Coke]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

He's still young, so he will grow up eventually But i do like his confidence and he's quite funny.

He is twenty six years old. Trained medical professionals (that is, the sort of trained medical professionals who'll end up having to try to save his useless ass when he od's because the reality telly contracts have dried up) are younger. But yeah, fair enough, I suppose he is quite funny.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

He's still young, so he will grow up eventually But i do like his confidence and he's quite funny.

Vanessa, honestly if ever I was to try to and ever got on BB,I really hope one person I would have as support would be you.

You are awesome in defending those you like,really I admire your conviction.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Vanessa, honestly if ever I was to try to and ever got on BB,I really hope one person I would have as support would be you.

You are awesome in defending those you like,really I admire your conviction.

He just makes me laugh really. How can you stay mad at someone who wears a mask and a feather boa?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

He's still young, so he will grow up eventually But i do like his confidence and he's quite funny.

Yes Enough to beat that Fat Ass Mafia Bitch

[Maru]

Coming in late and read first half of the thread. Skimmed the rest. Wow. I'm not sure who was enraged more, Bear or this thread


A few points to touch on

1. I think saying it could potentially be claustrophobia or some other similar psyche reaction is underestimating Bear's intelligence. He's a smart cookie. They have a responsibility to maintain order and safety for all the HM's. No doubt they are asked all kinds of health and security related questions before they go in like "Can you handle being locked in small placess?", etc. The HM's also have had that chance to raise other concerns they may have beforehand about entering. So that's full stop not a reason. I'm not a producer, but I'm sure there is a detailed contract, rule-book or otherwise some kind of outline that protects production from litigation in the event they have to use extreme measures (like having the security guard beat up Bear) to maintain security in the house.

2. It also makes sense if you consider that Bear's overall temperament is not at all, in any shape or form, stable. He reminds me of a grown child with ADHD. Some of these people have drug histories. From an experienced standpoint it's not unreasonable to consider when certain individuals are put under certain pressure for a length of time and are without a coping mechanism (such as drugs, cig, etc) to manage, that can cause some people to subsequently implode. I know that sounds silly, but with how common drug abuse is in the celebrity/fame world, it's at least a remote possibility.

3. It's not even just his temper they have to worry about. It's his propensity to create fireworks for camera time. He doesn't seem like the type of person to care if he ends up being kicked out for "being a little out of order". In fact, he seems to think his job and character is being out of order. He has already shown that he is willing to go over and beyond even people's most aggressive predictions of his behavior. We only see 45 minutes. Imagine too that this is what the HM's and the producers have to deal with all day. For all we know, this was the climax of small minor things that eventually ended up in a blowup.

4. Say for example though that some people here are right. BB was wrong to hold him for so long even if they felt he was a genuine threat. Would it have been better if they called the police to come manage and then he be charged? I don't know UK laws, but destruction of property usually ends up in a trip to jail in the US. Which leads to my last point...

5. Big Brother doesn't want to upset or otherwise make problems for themselves with regards to Bear. They want to continue to work with him because in their eyes he is making great television. Why else feature him each and every episode?

That said, my own personal take...

I do agree that him being locked up likely raged him more.

Secondly, I thought their timing was awkwardly timed and dodgy. He seemed to be going on for some time by the time they called him in. I though after he threw the whatever he threw, he looked like he may have even been calming down.

We can't forget he gets a lot of leeway already in the fact that they rarely reign it in. It's entirely possible it went on for quite a while building before they intervened. I don't think anyone expected him to break a mirror? They may have found that alarming and thought he is too much of a liability to even risk letting back into the house.

Thirdly, if we're going to follow the logic here what Big Brother was OTT (regarding the extended lockdown) and that they lost control of the situation, then we also have to concede that well--if it was so wrong and that they still felt he was really that much of a risk to send back in, they should've just ejected him instead. That would've been the optimal solution I think.

Instead they reigned him in hoping to save their precious golden boy from doing something to implicate himself which would've left them with no choice but to eject him. That is the more likely what was going on with regard to the reasoning I think.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

He was freaking out about being locked i the diary room. Maybe a fear of locked spaces?

Fear of being a big c..t ?

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Vanessa, honestly if ever I was to try to and ever got on BB,I really hope one person I would have as support would be you.

You are awesome in defending those you like,really I admire your conviction.

I would hate the support of anyone who always supports c..ts!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

I mean he's been in a closet for 26 years of his life and counting, it must be getting cramped in there

I TOTALLY agree!! He is as camp as a tent.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Livia

Go and Google the symptoms of a panic attack and then try to fit those symptoms into what happened last night. Being a twat and screaming that you're going to "smash the ****ing gaff up" isn't amongst the symptoms. No one has suggested he was having a panic attack other than a couple of unqualified people on here who seem able to make a diagnosis of someone's mental health by watching them on the telly for five minutes.

Maybe you should watch it again?

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