[bitontheslide]

Thankfully i stopped watching this trash early on, but I think its worth pointing out that the producers did indeed mug off the viewing public.

The entire show was setup to showcase their own reality stars and further the ratings potential of sister shows, there wasn't even the slightest pretence that they were being in any way balanced in their treatment of the cast.

Bear was the winner, no sour grapes from me, I couldn't care less as I am not the producers target audience, its of no consequence to me. For those that enjoyed bears victory, congratulations, and enjoy watching him on the shows the producers were promoting, but realise that BB itself has been dealt a terminal blow, there is no way back from this to the original intentions of BB

[Toy Soldier]

I disagree: Bear / this series is the end result of how they've changed the show, not the cause. The reason I've been able to enjoy it so much this year is because I accepted what the show had already become and embraced it as something different. "Classic BB" died years ago... This can't possibly have been the terminal blow.

[elliebrew]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree: Bear / this series is the end result of how they've changed the show, not the cause. The reason I've been able to enjoy it so much this year is because I accepted what the show had already become and embraced it as something different. "Classic BB" died years ago... This can't possibly have been the terminal blow.

It's been the terminal blow for a lot it long term fans, me included

There's no way back from this

I used to get excited at the prospect of seeing celebrities I grew up watching in the BB house

Now I just feel angry that they get disrespected by the chavvy viewers, and completely edited out of the highlights in favour of sponsored structured reality TV wannabes who have an unfair advantage and ready made fanbase in the younger viewers

Is no longer a fair fight

[Bagabeach]

The BOSSES SON goes for a interview along with 14 other hopefuls, WHO GETS THE JOB ?

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree: Bear / this series is the end result of how they've changed the show, not the cause. The reason I've been able to enjoy it so much this year is because I accepted what the show had already become and embraced it as something different. "Classic BB" died years ago... This can't possibly have been the terminal blow.

That's a bit if a defeatist approach. I would like to believe that Jason's winning, for example, had shown that the audience can disagree with C5's "new vibe"...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Thankfully i stopped watching this trash early on, but I think its worth pointing out that the producers did indeed mug off the viewing public.

The entire show was setup to showcase their own reality stars and further the ratings potential of sister shows, there wasn't even the slightest pretence that they were being in any way balanced in their treatment of the cast.

Bear was the winner, no sour grapes from me, I couldn't care less as I am not the producers target audience, its of no consequence to me. For those that enjoyed bears victory, congratulations, and enjoy watching him on the shows the producers were promoting, but realise that BB itself has been dealt a terminal blow, there is no way back from this to the original intentions of BB

A superb articulation of the thoughts of many other viewers.

THIS above is EXACTLY why the producers manipulated the series to try to guarantee that despicable yob Bear won the show.

I stopped watching mid way through too, and I will not be watching ever again - and THAT is a promise:

'Mug me off once, and that is the producer's fault, but mug me off twice, and that is my fault', and I will not be a willing party to being mugged off.

The show is past its 'Sell By' date and should be scrapped. In my opinion.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by y.winter

That's a bit if a defeatist approach. I would like to believe that Jason's winning, for example, had shown that the audience can disagree with C5's "new vibe"...

That makes the assumption that the "change" is purely down to C5 and an agenda. I would counter that, in fact, C5's agenda is simply to cater to the change. The audience is changing... BB is desperately trying to change with them and dragging old fans along for the ride and the effect is fascinating; i.e. Bear winning despite the fact that a large majority of This forum (of long time fans) hate him almost unreasonable amounts.

And WHY do they hate him so much? Is he really as loathsome as they scream? Is he scum? Is he the worst human alive when the world is full of very real sociopaths and "monsters"? No... he's relatively harmless, if slightly immature and mean-spirited. In my opinion, the hatred stems from that very fact that Bear represents a change that many people do not want... And THAT is what they "hate".

For me personally as always I enjoy BB for the psychology, and this show's effect on housemates (Sam, Ricky, Renee, Katie, Frankie and Aubrey standing out especially) has been interesting... But his effect on the public (e.g the forum) has been solid gold. If this series does end up being "the death of BB" (unlikely, as people say that at least once every year) then I'd be fine with that... It will have gone out poetically and closed the loop perfectly.

[bitontheslide]

the change may have been happening for some time, but the producers sealed it with this series. With everything there is a point of no return, and that point has been well and truly reached now.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That makes the assumption that the "change" is purely down to C5 and an agenda. I would counter that, in fact, C5's agenda is simply to cater to the change. The audience is changing... BB is desperately trying to change with them and dragging old fans along for the ride and the effect is fascinating; i.e. Bear winning despite the fact that a large majority of This forum (of long time fans) hate him almost unreasonable amounts.

And WHY do they hate him so much? Is he really as loathsome as they scream? Is he scum? Is he the worst human alive when the world is full of very real sociopaths and "monsters"? No... he's relatively harmless, if slightly immature and mean-spirited. In my opinion, the hatred stems from that very fact that Bear represents a change that many people do not want... And THAT is what they "hate".

For me personally as always I enjoy BB for the psychology, and this show's effect on housemates (Sam, Ricky, Renee, Katie, Frankie and Aubrey standing out especially) has been interesting... But his effect on the public (e.g the forum) has been solid gold. If this series does end up being "the death of BB" (unlikely, as people say that at least once every year) then I'd be fine with that... It will have gone out poetically and closed the loop perfectly.

Probably the best counter response really, even if I don't agree with some of it. Especially good the last paragraph.

The show is certainly changing, but we can't dismiss the sour grapes it's left with the old base. Only time will tell if the new base is capable of replacing it. BB needs to be careful how it re-brands itself. It's not good to damage their old expectations as that's not what viewers were originally told to expect... they may detect a farce which could damage their trust with it's existing base.

In another thread I wrote about how the experience has went sour because of the handicapping of the game itself. Another con is the excessive manipulation by production.

For you it is interesting because of the psyche element. That's the same way I can watch some low brow shows that my husband detests. I'm not really watching them the way they're meant to be watched, but I gather interesting tidbits from it... like the study of odd characters and even the fandom surrounding them.

Though, it ceases to be interesting and productive for me if that wall between the viewer and that external reality is otherwise obscured, compromised or increasingly sabotaged. This is where the line is for me. Too much production and our ability to disseminate what is going on and our ability to relate to the medium in a quality way is hampered. At worst, it destroys any sense of depth and only creates surface level tension in order to force a constant reaction from the audience. This last bit it's already crossed for me.

Don't know the UK's situation, but in the US I can find people like Bear, Marnie and Chloe on every channel (and we have a lot of TV here...). That said, to BB's credit, they are trying to re-engineer BB using a proven formula among the greater viewing audience...

[Cherie]

I think James Whale summed it up well when he said they made Bear the Star of the show, I can still watch it as it still throws up some interesting unexpected interactions like Our Sam whose response to situations was totally genuine, as was Aubrey's response to being pied, there are some glimmers in there but you have to look beyond the camera hogging and showmances I don't vote so I don't feel mugged off, I can't say it would enhance my life if Ricky had won over Bear, Bear coming runner up would still result in him getting whatever is planned for him and I will watch again in January :

And I agree with TS some of the hate thrown at HMs is totally unnecessary

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

Though, it ceases to be interesting and productive for me if that wall between the viewer and that external reality is otherwise obscured, compromised or increasingly sabotaged. This is where the line is for me. Too much production and our ability to disseminate what is going on and our ability to relate to the medium in a quality way is hampered. At worst, it destroys any sense of depth and only creates surface level tension in order to force a constant reaction from the audience. This last bit it's already crossed for me.

See, I enjoy the psychology of that part too. Trying to peak behind the curtain and figure out what they're doing, how they're trying to skew it, and most importantly why... There's plenty of interest there for me. I think the issue many have is separating their emotions from it maybe? A lot about who they "like" or don't and (seemingly) endless comments on the "morality" of people who should support someone like bear. I don't like Bear as a person. But I adore the little bugger as a TV character .

[sampvt]

I won't say I won't watch it again because that would be a lie. I will watch but as soon as the bias starts in gone. Too many reality wannabes. Too many scammers. Too many pre scripted storylines and the biggest scam of all is bb and it's lack of control. People are getting thrown out for minor things and show faces are allowed to get away with murder. Final warnings are pathetic.

[jet]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the change may have been happening for some time, but the producers sealed it with this series. With everything there is a point of no return, and that point has been well and truly reached now.

Sadly it has. It's not only the producers who have sealed the change, but the viewing public who have towed the producers line. There is a new generation of BB fans, and I guess it's time to move on. What I don't get is why loyal diehard fans want this kind of trashy rubbish and don't mind that the producers picked their winner for them. I've never witnessed such blatant transparency. Even if I'd been entertained by Bear, which I most certainly was not, I wouldn't have voted for him to win.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree: Bear / this series is the end result of how they've changed the show, not the cause. The reason I've been able to enjoy it so much this year is because I accepted what the show had already become and embraced it as something different. "Classic BB" died years ago... This can't possibly have been the terminal blow.

I agree.

I actually see this as a soap now, with voting for the characters in it included.
I no longer see it as the BB set up that was originally.

The noms are messed with,evictions are tampered with and it seems the housemates almost play out characters rather than themselves a lot of the time.

Watching it with that 'image' of it now, made it easier for me to go along with a lot that happened.
I still watched it all through and will watch BB for as long as it on TV in the future.

Now accepting that the 'old' way is never likely coming back.

[ebandit]

which came 1st?.....antics or production..............production or antics,,,

Mark L

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jet

Sadly it has. It's not only the producers who have sealed the change, but the viewing public who have towed the producers line. There is a new generation of BB fans, and I guess it's time to move on. What I don't get is why loyal diehard fans want this kind of trashy rubbish and don't mind that the producers picked their winner for them. I've never witnessed such blatant transparency. Even if I'd been entertained by Bear, which I most certainly was not, I wouldn't have voted for him to win.

There was only 1 per cent in it, it wasn't a runaway victory

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jet

Sadly it has. It's not only the producers who have sealed the change, but the viewing public who have towed the producers line. There is a new generation of BB fans, and I guess it's time to move on. What I don't get is why loyal diehard fans want this kind of trashy rubbish and don't mind that the producers picked their winner for them. I've never witnessed such blatant transparency. Even if I'd been entertained by Bear, which I most certainly was not, I wouldn't have voted for him to win.

Very well said Jet.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Thankfully i stopped watching this trash early on, but I think its worth pointing out that the producers did indeed mug off the viewing public.

The entire show was setup to showcase their own reality stars and further the ratings potential of sister shows, there wasn't even the slightest pretence that they were being in any way balanced in their treatment of the cast.

Bear was the winner, no sour grapes from me, I couldn't care less as I am not the producers target audience, its of no consequence to me. For those that enjoyed bears victory, congratulations, and enjoy watching him on the shows the producers were promoting, but realise that BB itself has been dealt a terminal blow, there is no way back from this to the original intentions of BB

100% spot on, ofcom need to step in to clean up this disastrous corrupt show....fixing events is meant to be illegal, especially where millions of pounds of betting are involved

[Ian Coke]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That makes the assumption that the "change" is purely down to C5 and an agenda. I would counter that, in fact, C5's agenda is simply to cater to the change. The audience is changing... BB is desperately trying to change with them and dragging old fans along for the ride and the effect is fascinating; i.e. Bear winning despite the fact that a large majority of This forum (of long time fans) hate him almost unreasonable amounts.

And WHY do they hate him so much? Is he really as loathsome as they scream? Is he scum? Is he the worst human alive when the world is full of very real sociopaths and "monsters"? No... he's relatively harmless, if slightly immature and mean-spirited. In my opinion, the hatred stems from that very fact that Bear represents a change that many people do not want... And THAT is what they "hate".

For me personally as always I enjoy BB for the psychology, and this show's effect on housemates (Sam, Ricky, Renee, Katie, Frankie and Aubrey standing out especially) has been interesting... But his effect on the public (e.g the forum) has been solid gold. If this series does end up being "the death of BB" (unlikely, as people say that at least once every year) then I'd be fine with that... It will have gone out poetically and closed the loop perfectly.

It's a completely different show from how it started, all those years ago. Series one was conceived as a psychological experiment; now it's an exercise in psychological warfare. Ultimately, the voters decide. What they obviously want is to see the housemates suffer, and in that sense, Stephen was a deserving winner. Although doesn't everyone else in there deserve points for not trying to kill him?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by the truth

100% spot on, ofcom need to step in to clean up this disastrous corrupt show....fixing events is meant to be illegal, especially where millions of pounds of betting are involved

Only if vote rigging is involved which it never has been... There's no real rule at all to say that they can't cherry pick what they show or manipulate nominations, etc.

That's part of the consideration when you bet.

[Tregard]

> Put in a housemate from a structured reality show owned by your parent company with the intention of annoying everyone else

> Add an eternal nomination twist which this housemate will almost definitely be chosen for

> Ensure this housemate is the main character in every story that you show throughout the series

> As the series is vote to save, ensure this housemate always goes up against multiple people so you cannot vote against him

> This housemate's established fanbase will vote for him every week, unopposed by those who want him gone as they cannot directly vote to evict him

> Profit from the consistent votes to save

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

See, I enjoy the psychology of that part too. Trying to peak behind the curtain and figure out what they're doing, how they're trying to skew it, and most importantly why... There's plenty of interest there for me. I think the issue many have is separating their emotions from it maybe? A lot about who they "like" or don't and (seemingly) endless comments on the "morality" of people who should support someone like bear. I don't like Bear as a person. But I adore the little bugger as a TV character .

Oh I get it. I watch the Bachelor franchise for very similar reasons, it's one o the reasons I really like Unreal. I used to read Steve Carbone's/Reality Steve's spoilers on the show and his inside information into how it was edited, what actually happened, etc. Though now I prefer to watch unspoiled. I don't really believe that a large portion of them are just there for "love". The show has always embraced the controversy and been tongue in cheek about what it really was. Plenty of cynics watch it. My husband used to act like he wanted to vomit when I mentioned the show, but now sometimes on our off days he sits with me and reads/listens to other people's commentary with me... though he still pretends to be playing with his phone.

That's not why I watch BB though. I mean yes to a degree I like to see how they handle 24 hours in a 45 minute edit and the production aspect is interesting. It just felt in the past that we had generally un-obscured (with live feeds or to the best of their ability mostly without) view into a mostly un-managed reality inside the house (short of tasks and necessary roleplaying). Real people on display for the TV eating audience... even if they may wear a mask so to speak and are fine-tuning their behavior for the cameras... it was great TV.

For me, that experience was shelved for one person to dominate the show and create most of the storylines. They manipulated left and right and barely give them actual punishments anymore (endless parties) which for me... I like to see them eat gruel and suffer through physical tasks. So much good footage had to be on the cutting room floor to give him more airtime. That's really my point, what did not make it to air obscured us from the real house dynamics.

It's not even that I dislike Bear as much as there's nothing with him I haven't seen. Bear is on all the reality shows here, on the street, at the local supermarket... went to school with Bears. Been bullied by Bear. Both I walked by, shrugged and never gave a second thought. He's not compelling TV viewing for me... just base ugly human nature that un-impinged is like listening to a predictable song on broken record than compelling viewing. You found him interesting because for you he gave the show depth, but for me it's puddle depth and thus the show felt unbalanced.

Put Bear in any other series and people would be just as outraged by the antics, but he probably would've been ejected. At least if he weren't somebodies cup of tea, there are other reasons to watch and more HM's to root for .. This series felt unbearable with it's 100% focus on him.

Funny enough, I loved Perez' season, but that's because I felt like we really got to know the other HM's (Alicia Douvall, Cami, Patsy Kensit, etc). Katie Hopkins brought a lot to the table argument-wise and everyone was allowed a lot of feedback that wasn't just Perez' schoolyard antics. He was also de-illusional as all get out. He himself was also anti-bullying, so as annoying as he was at times, he did switch roles often. He was not overbearing to the degree that Bear was... though I'm sure plenty would disagree.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree: Bear / this series is the end result of how they've changed the show, not the cause. The reason I've been able to enjoy it so much this year is because I accepted what the show had already become and embraced it as something different. "Classic BB" died years ago... This can't possibly have been the terminal blow.

I must admit to thinking along the same lines as you.

Once you see the show for what it has become these days you can sit back and enjoy..regarding the celeb version I have always been a fan off BB making absolute fools of the celebs that go on the show and I like to see how the celebs deal with that.

This year for me was good cause heavy d and bear played BB at their own game by making the other hms look exactly like what they are..fakes.

[delta]

I really do not understand some articulate and well recognised posters on here cannot grasp the fundamental law of attraction, 'like attracts like.

THat is why he won.

The majority of us liked watching him, he was interesting, he rose to top,he wasn't artificially put there. If he'd have gone in there and been a real bore do you think he would have had the same camera time? Not a chance.

The camera gravitated towards him the more interesting he became, he is a reasonably handsome chap and very mis-understood.

He is one of life's positive people and cannot bide or comprehend negatively, that's what pee'd him off the most about the others. Not once did he resort to putting others down or back biting, he won by being himself. Yes, he was bored of certain housemates inertia and tried to liven things up by winding them up, essentially to fire them into life. Even Renee and Aubrey wanted him to remain in there 'cos otherwise they would have died of boredom, " at least he keeps it interesting" * Never a truer word" and that's what the viewer saw.

The acid testament to whether it was an act or not was in his exit interview with RC, " I could go straight back in and do another 30 days, I absolutely loved it" he actually thrived on the adversity and the down right miserableness of certain of his fellow housemates, whilst at the same time enjoyed immensely the arena he was in.


My take on the Bear is that he was a likeable, misunderstood,even by his allies, very under-rated, with a great back bone. He saw off and disarmed a band of viperous bullies who were out to get him any which way they could. Who severely underestimated his intelligence, his staying power, his adaptability and in the end his bloody mindedness.


A truly deserving winner.

[Ian Coke]

Stephen seems like he'd do anything for air-time. And some people think he's no good, as a result. What about this is difficult to understand?