[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

NI think it's a disaster too...

Northern Ireland should push the EU to grant it special associate or even membership status to avoid the “devastating” consequences of Brexit for Irish people, Martin McGuinness has said.

The deputy first minister and Sinn Féin leader told the Guardian that leaders in Belfast and Dublin needed to work together to make the case for special rules to apply to Northern Ireland. The province voted 56:44 in favour of staying in the EU in June’s referendum, but will be forced to pull out when Britain does.

“As things sit at the moment we are going to suffer big time,” McGuinness said. “Theresa May says ‘Brexit means Brexit’, but so far as we are concerned Brexit means disaster for the people of Ireland.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rthern-ireland

Well Martin McGuiness is a Republican so is not without other motives to make issue of Brexit. There are political and bargaining positions at play here.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well Martin McGuiness is a Republican so is not without other motives to make issue of Brexit. There are political and bargaining positions at play here.

tbf though we trade a lot with the North since we're part of the same small Island, it's a big issue for us as well as northern Ireland, our government have also been asking about this

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

tbf though we trade a lot with the North since we're part of the same small Island, it's a big issue for us as well as northern Ireland, our government have also been asking about this

Of course, there are a lot of interested parties who want to know what's going to happen and if they will now have to pay tarrifs. But I think those in the Union claiming disaster and nevermores (SNP, Sinn Fein) at this early point do have their agendas as they believe there are bargaining chips to be had as well as any other concerns to their economy about leaving, obviously they want to play as big a part in deciding what goes down as they possibly can.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Of course, there are a lot of interested parties who want to know what's going to happen and if they will now have to pay tarrifs. But I think those in the Union claiming disaster and nevermores (SNP, Sinn Fein) at this early point do have their agendas as they believe there are bargaining chips to be had as well as any other concerns to their economy about leaving, obviously they want to play as big a part in deciding what goes down as they possibly can.

They may have agendas but it doesn't take away the fact that it's a huge issue for both the ROI and NI. Where I work we deal a fair bit with the North so it will directly affect my job for example

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They may have agendas but it doesn't take away the fact that it's a huge issue for both the ROI and NI. Where I work we deal a fair bit with the North so it will directly affect my job for example

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

Indeed, it's just more of a worry for us than any other EU country i would imagine because of NI and also the rest of the UK as we're so close to the Uk and so far away from all the other countries. And we trade alot with you

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

So what you want... is for the UK to be a part of the single market and enjoy all of the benefits of the single market, without having to comply with the rules of the single market, agree to the open borders that are a huge part of that open market, or pay anything towards its upkeep?

I believe that's what's known as "having your cake and eating it too", isn't it?

The countries that are not full EU members but still engage with the single market in meaningful ways (e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) simply piggyback all or most of the trade rules directly from EU law every time a new one comes into force, in order to still be compatible with the market. Also, the leaders of these countries have SPECIFICALLY STATED that the only reason that works for them, is because they have relatively small populations. The UK couldn't do the same even if it wanted to, because of the size of the population and economy. And even if it was possible - what was the point of all that bleating about getting out of Europe to "not allow others to make our laws!"... only to then follow all of the EU laws anyway?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So what you want... is for the UK to be a part of the single market and enjoy all of the benefits of the single market, without having to comply with the rules of the single market, agree to the open borders that are a huge part of that open market, or pay anything towards its upkeep?

I believe that's what's known as "having your cake and eating it too", isn't it?

The countries that are not full EU members but still engage with the single market in meaningful ways (e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) simply piggyback all or most of the trade rules directly from EU law every time a new one comes into force, in order to still be compatible with the market. Also, the leaders of these countries have SPECIFICALLY STATED that the only reason that works for them, is because they have relatively small populations. The UK couldn't do the same even if it wanted to, because of the size of the population and economy. And even if it was possible - what was the point of all that bleating about getting out of Europe to "not allow others to make our laws!"... only to then follow all of the EU laws anyway?

Me personally, no, I'd like a hard Brexit I'd just like us to leave and get on with it. Perhaps make the commonwealth a beacon of free trade. We have options. But I think there are a lot of other people who have an interest in that. We have no way of knowing what way the negotiations will go yet.

There are Germans, French and other national business who might prefer to carry in free trade with us, that's rather the point of negotiating a deal. I would disagree that it is having our cake and eating it though. When we signed on, we signed up for a free market, there was no four rules then. The rest all came along later with treaties we were never asked to approve. I'm not sure why we can't still have a trade deal with the EU if it's desirable to all parties. It is what we signed up for in the first place.

It reminds me a bit of buying a car, then a few years later the company comes along and says, we are going to take the wheels back because we've made up a new rule. That's what happened to us. We signed up for one thing, then they said oh no the rules have changed. Now you have to do this and this and this to have that.