[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You just made that up. :laugh - Just like you did this below:

"There are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over, they are being addressed from within those communities,

You don't feel there are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over then?.. What about FGM?

Of course there are, but this is irrelevant in the context of my post.

We were discussing ONE issue - whether some Muslim women are 'CONDITIONED' into wearing the Niqab .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Of course there are, but this is irrelevant in the context of my post.

We were discussing ONE issue - whether some Muslim women are 'CONDITIONED' into wearing the Niqab .

Check the edit and you'll see your mistake.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not good for you when you throw the explanation of 'conditioning' into the mix to attack critics whilst constantly attempting to defend those most guilty of that. It sounds ridiculous.

[jaxie]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;9053034]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't mean to be hyper critical but the tone of previous posts do not suggest that the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost in your thoughts in relation to this issue.

More misrepresentation. Who the hell mentioned that "the well being of Muslim women are the uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."?

I never did - anywhere. I clearly stated at the beginning of my post what the purpose of that post was:

"Your view that opposes some other views that some Niqab wearing Muslim women are 'conditioned' into doing so, is frankly baffling Kizzy.

There are hundreds of complaints from oppressed Muslim women denouncing this very practice of being intimidated and threatened and conditioned into wearing these types of medieval garments against their will.

Many young 'Anglicised' Muslim girls have even been murdered by their extremist families for NOT obeying these strict dress codes.

And for further proof that these women are 'conditioned' into this; read this below from a young Muslim woman, actually note the terminology, and the tell me that she is not 'conditioned' and even 'brain-washed': "

Now is not the above clear enough to define the purpose of my post, and NOWHERE do I mention or allude to; "the well being of Muslim women" being uppermost" in my "thoughts in relation to this issue."

You just made that up. :laugh - Just like you did this below:

"There are cultural issues that affect women predominantly the world over, they are being addressed from within those communities, to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless. "

More Deflection and totally meaningless and irrelevant within the context of my post.

In addition, what the hell does "to simply stand shouting and pointing from the sidelines is useless." actually mean? This is mere waffle in the hope of deflecting that you have no real argument Kizzy.

I am not shouting or pointing from any sideline, I am posting my view on a forum in response to points which you made that I do not agree with.

"As is demonising any and all Muslims, this has been addressed many many times the religious and cultural differences of that faith are as diverse as the next."

This above from you is disgusting and unfair.

I have NOT "Demonised ALL Muslims" either in this post OR ANY OTHER and the rest of your sentence is yet more deflective waffle.

"I have also seen the passages you posted cross referenced with similar biblical old testament text in these threads many times, therefore this cherry picking of information can go on ad infinitum."


WHAT "Cherry Picking of information"?

I used a Muslim Woman's OWN voluntary testimony to substantiate my rebuttal of your claim that some Muslim women are NOT 'conditioned' into wearing Niqabs.

Now that I have - and destroyed your claim - you once again start making spurious claims in your response posts about what I have and have not written, but the truth of all this is here for anyone impartial to read.

If you do not WANT to debate, then stop trying to always have the last word - especially when that last word is false.

Incidentally, your link to Biblical Passages is totally irrelevant deflection in the context of this post and this entire thread.

Very well put Kirk.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not good for you when you throw the explanation of 'conditioning' into the mix to attack critics whilst constantly attempting to defend those most guilty of that. It sounds ridiculous.

'Most guilty'... define most guilty in the context of social conditioning.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'Most guilty'... define most guilty in the context of social conditioning.

Conditioning a whole society, men, women and vulnerable children alike, into believing that women should cover themselves from head to foot in order to be religiously and socially acceptable, and worse, that not to do so would make them some kind of moral degenerate who was committing a crime against Alla, deserving of death, is social conditioning - the worst kind!

[Livia]

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

Well said Livia. I'm old and grumpy enough to not give a flying f... if anything I say is considered racist.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

Brilliant post Livia!

Also all this PC and integration stuff is all fine and dandy in theory but it has one fatal flaw... Muslims are taught very early on NOT to integrate so it doesn't matter what the government puts in place to help integration it cannot work if they do NOT want to integrate.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

Soooo right.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

Don't you come from Newham? there are pockets of social deprivation everywhere that have a concentration of BAME groups aren't there?
There are also traditionally white areas that are considered 'no go' too, so your argument has several flaws, it's not a specifically Muslim issue.

Anyone who tries to lay blame for their own bigotry at the door of another is a whole level of sad.
The reason there was brexit and trump won is people are desperate for change, they wanted to save the NHS and what happened? We got brexit and the govt sold Branson Bath and Somerset childrens and adult mental health services!... that is not what we wanted, many voted as they appealed to the 'lefty' in us and were duped.
In America Trump won because Hilary did not offer enough of a change, Sanders would have been a better candidate against Trump, there would be a clearer divide.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't you come from Newham? there are pockets of social deprivation everywhere that have a concentration of BAME groups aren't there?
There are also traditionally white areas that are considered 'no go' too, so your argument has several flaws, it's not a specifically Muslim issue.

Anyone who tries to lay blame for their own bigotry at the door of another is a whole level of sad.
The reason there was brexit and trump won is people are desperate for change, they wanted to save the NHS and what happened? We got brexit and the govt sold Branson Bath and Somerset childrens and adult mental health services!... that is not what we wanted, many voted as they appealed to the 'lefty' in us and were duped.
In America Trump won because Hilary did not offer enough of a change, Sanders would have been a better candidate against Trump, there would be a clearer divide.

I despair! We all know the main reason so many voted for Brexit and Trump was because of migration. Deny it all you want- it is exactly that attitude that led to the meltdown in the first place.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that there are people on this thread who think that Muslims taking over a whole area and telling a British person "go away and don't come back, you shouldn't be here" is perfectly fine is the reason that people voted Brexit and the reason that people voted Trump. I'm so tired of it being insinuated that people are racist, conditioned or any other silly word used by the Left to push their own agenda.

Like I said before, well done The Left, Trump's victory is yours.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The reporter only asked for directions and she was spat at before being told she 'shouldn't be there' in her own country.The few white residents who live there can't go out after dark.It's a disgrace to the country.

unreported by the BBC
PC yet again to blame for our own self destruction

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I despair! We all know the main reason so many voted for Brexit and Trump was because of migration. Deny it all you want- it is exactly that attitude that led to the meltdown in the first place.

wrong but you keep burying your head in the sand see wear it gets you

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by the truth

wrong but you keep burying your head in the sand see wear it gets you

Not me burying my head in anything - just stating the obvious.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by the truth

unreported by the BBC
PC yet again to blame for our own self destruction

The BBC are an unbalanced tragedy.
Pictures and reports all over of a little dead migrant boy on the beach without one mention of the vast amounts of footage showing migrants on the borders smashing things up and vandalising things at the same time.
Or reports of how damaging Brexit was going to be while claiming in the same day on The Daily Politics how fair and balanced they are.They think that by telling us they are balanced they can then get away with biased reporting.