[Kizzy]

Really conflicted on this issue, whereas on the one hand I agree with community, civil response to social issues and the volunteer sector, is unpaid work justified?

Are you only in fact doing what you pay council tax for, or doing some poor joe out of a job? I can see an argument for green areas, childrens play areas, neighbourhood watch , litter picks that kind of thing ... but training people up for road maintenance? this is just unpaid work.

The majority tory panel think it a great idea but is it... where will it end, why 'employ' anyone?

( Should you have an issue with the source feel free to find your own)

http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/10/b...-tories-video/

[Vicky.]

I do not see why anyone should be expected to do a job that would otherwise be paid, for free. Nor can I think of any reason ANYONE (bar employers looking to get slave labour) would be for it? In a day where jobs are very scarce, this obsession with getting people to work for nothing is pretty insane really.

Also even cleaning play areas and such...if people weren't doing it for free, councils would need to pay someone to do it. So even these seemingly innocent community placements are taking away real jobs :/

Litter picking and such tends to be done by people on community service also. So not sure why this would need to be a 'wider public' thing tbh

[Kizzy]

I know, as if 'apprenticeships' and the DWPs 'work experience' weren't harnessing enough free/pittance jobs they suggest semi skilled labour be done gratis ON TOP of the job you already have!

What is meant by 'economy'?.... My understanding was you earn money and spend it, that contributes to the economy, so if nobody gets anything except hand to mouth money seriously what happens?
Or is it only going to be a very small percentage that contributes to the economy and the rest of us drones just about survive if we're lucky?

No wonder the service sector is the only expanding area, we are hurtling back to the days of upstairs downstairs, and we're complicit!

Unbelievable.

[ebandit]

...exactly! min wage is just that..........well? unless you're unlucky enough

to be jobless...............................

Mark L

[Vicky.]

Apprenticeships are a farce now too.

Apprentice 'sandwich artist' and such.

**** off

Any excuse to not pay someone a real wage. These companies should be ashamed of themselves.


Not slagging apprenticeships in general here, just what they have turned into. I do think that apprenticeships in skilled/semi-skilled work are a decent enough idea as its learning on the job instead of college courses and such. When you have 'apprentice bar staff' and such though...just no

[ebandit]

....while on a scheme............owner of business to which i was assigned was

unhappy i described my position as 'slave labour' to his face..................LOL

shoulda paid a wage.................

....never lasted long there.............out! when i declined cleaning the bog

Mark L

[parmnion]

Maybe instead of over exuberant jobsworths fining you for flicking a fag you should be made to do a weeks worth off cleaning and clearing areas of litter etc.

Maybe instead of meaningless road traffic offences that carry a points and fine conviction you should be made to do road maintanence work.....

**** being made to work for nothing..they can shove that right up where the sun dont shine.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Apprenticeships are a farce now too.

Apprentice 'sandwich artist' and such.

**** off

Any excuse to not pay someone a real wage. These companies should be ashamed of themselves.


Not slagging apprenticeships in general here, just what they have turned into. I do think that apprenticeships in skilled/semi-skilled work are a decent enough idea as its learning on the job instead of college courses and such. When you have 'apprentice bar staff' and such though...just no

Exactly, my daughter saw one for apprentice shelf stacker...I mean come on!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Maybe instead of over exuberant jobsworths fining you for flicking a fag you should be made to do a weeks worth off cleaning and clearing areas of litter etc.

Maybe instead of meaningless road traffic offences that carry a points and fine conviction you should be made to do road maintanence work.....

**** being made to work for nothing..they can shove that right up where the sun dont shine.

Again that is just doing someone out of a job, they used to have community service, that fell by the wayside as the would rather fine someone who has no money to begin with and get some twonk to do the cleaning for nowt.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Again that is just doing someone out of a job, they used to have community service, that fell by the wayside as the would rather fine someone who has no money to begin with and get some twonk to do the cleaning for nowt.

Have you seen the state of the streets and roads?..theres plenty work for all..both payed and for those paying retribution. Dont know if there is enough shovels left though cause the local council run workers seem to need them for leaning on.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Have you seen the state of the streets and roads?..theres plenty work for all..both payed and for those paying retribution. Dont know if there is enough shovels left though cause the local council run workers seem to need them for leaning on.

Of course I have, that is due to lack of funds you would take a job off someone and give it to those you feel owe some kind of civil debt?

And then where are the low skilled/ unskilled jobs?
It's similar to that silly mail mantra 'jobs they won't do', as an argument for eastern Europeans being recruited for warehouse work... So why are young people being sanctioned for not being able to find a job or being offered shelf stacking 'apprenticeships?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course I have, that is due to lack of funds you would take a job off someone and give it to those you feel owe some kind of civil debt?

And then where are the low skilled/ unskilled jobs?
It's similar to that silly mail mantra 'jobs they won't do', as an argument for eastern Europeans being recruited for warehouse work... So why are young people being sanctioned for not being able to find a job or being offered shelf stacking 'apprenticeships?

I clearly stated that there is enough work for both paid workers and the ones owing a debt to the community..surprised its not been jumped on more considering the lack of funding.

Got to scratch your head at the lack of funding though considering these moronic on the spot fines dished out on a daily basis. Wonder where that money goes!


Look at the QE2 bridge that connects kent and essex..brits cross that every day but pay a ****ing french company for the pleasure of paying Ł4.50 a time....seriously..what the actual **** even a weeks worth of that money would go a long way to improve a loads of stuff, or at least pay these muppets demanding up to 4000 pound a day for filling some short term nhs roles..

[Tom4784]

I'm against unpaid work that isn't charity based. There's no justification for major businesses offering unpaid work, if there's work to be done then the worker should be paid for it. It's basically exploitation of a vulnerable demographic of people.

I also agree that apprenticeships are getting ridiculous as well, apprenticeships for unskilled work are basically a money saving exercise for these businesses and it has no long term benefit for apprentice.

Apprenticeships should only be allowed for skilled or trade based work or with placements that can offer you an actual career.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm against unpaid work that isn't charity based. There's no justification for major businesses offering unpaid work, if there's work to be done then the worker should pay for it. It's basically exploitation of a vulnerable demographic of people.

I also agree that apprenticeships are getting ridiculous as well, apprenticeships for unskilled work are basically a money saving exercise for these businesses and it has no long term benefit for apprentice.

Apprenticeships should only be allowed for skilled or trade based work or with placements that can offer you an actual career.

The apprentice thing is just a statistic the tories are going to be bumping on about to.prove how wonderful they are..load of bolloxy bollox.

[smudgie]

Didn't these people volunteer to fill in minor pot holes, they only do the little ones in country lanes etc, leaving the big jobs to the paid workers.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I clearly stated that there is enough work for both paid workers and the ones owing a debt to the community..surprised its not been jumped on more considering the lack of funding.

Got to scratch your head at the lack of funding though considering these moronic on the spot fines dished out on a daily basis. Wonder where that money goes!


Look at the QE2 bridge that connects kent and essex..brits cross that every day but pay a ****ing french company for the pleasure of paying Ł4.50 a time....seriously..what the actual **** even a weeks worth of that money would go a long way to improve a loads of stuff, or at least pay these muppets demanding up to 4000 pound a day for filling some short term nhs roles..

So are the fines moronic, why then is it seen as a debt to the community that MUST be paid?

Well a French company built it... Why don't we build our own things with our own people?

Answers on a postcard to, 2 many fingers in pies A T Westminster.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Didn't these people volunteer to fill in minor pot holes, they only do the little ones in country lanes etc, leaving the big jobs to the paid workers.

All areas have budgets whether served by major or minor roads, if this robbing peter to pay paul is tolerated in certain areas who's to say it won't be exploited?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So are the fines moronic, why then is it seen as a debt to the community that MUST be paid?

Well a French company built it... Why don't we build our own things with our own people?

Answers on a postcard to, 2 many fingers in pies A T Westminster.

I can answer the first question....its because we would see where the duty was paid rather than wonder what the heck happened to the money...the 2nd one...we paid them to build it then sold it back....third bit...more like fingers in little boys.

[Northern Monkey]

What Vicky and Dezzy said.Totally agree.An apprenticeship should give you a meaningful skill to take for life like a plumber or electrician or gas fitter that could enable you to set up your own business if you ever needed to.
Unpaid work I don't agree with either.I'm not against the retired pensioner volunteering in the charity shop to give them something to do but anything that requires a skill or hard manual labour should always be paid imo.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm sure my place was offering "customer service apprenticeships" at one point... Otherwise known as being a cashier for less than minimum wage. I don't think it lasted long / ever got off the ground, though... We have enough trouble getting actual paid staff to stick around longer than 6 months once they realise how much **** they have to deal with

[arista]

"the volunteer sector, is unpaid work justified?"


Of course it is Kizzy
Helping a Local Community
is Essential.
By working Un Paid
you give Quality time,
Making Britain Great.


Young Tibbers Need To Learn THIS

[arista]

"I'm against unpaid work that isn't charity based. There's no justification for major businesses offering unpaid work,"

No Dezzy
Many Charity's are Corrupt
taking so much for fecking Admin?


A Young Person
gets Experience
that matters more than Dezzy's Politics
with respect.


Life In The City

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

All areas have budgets whether served by major or minor roads, if this robbing peter to pay paul is tolerated in certain areas who's to say it won't be exploited?

Remember, Cameron cut local funding by a massive 40%. Councils are struggling because the men at the top have found better things to do with tax payers money.

[arista]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Remember, Cameron cut local funding by a massive 40%. Councils are struggling because the men at the top have found better things to do with tax payers money.

Kizzy is well aware
that some councils have been cut back,
so am I.


Yes DR
those Nuke Defenses
are costing Billions of Pounds.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

"I'm against unpaid work that isn't charity based. There's no justification for major businesses offering unpaid work,"

No Dezzy
Many Charity's are Corrupt
taking so much for fecking Admin?


A Young Person
gets Experience
that matters more than Dezzy's Politics
with respect.


Life In The City

Most employers will not use charity work for a CV and so in many cases, it won't be accepted as experience.