[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Ok then.I'll just take your word for it

Very wise, monkey.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What would you know about feminism, you're not a woman. As a woman I have experienced sexism on several occasions which has undoubtedly and understandably helped form my opinions.

I'm not moving anything btw. What we oppose in other counties and then tolerate in our own, for whatever reason, are inextricably linked. Without consistency we have nothing.

Many pay lip-service to something saying a certain practice is wrong but then tolerate it when certain religious groups practice it in their country because they want to be seen as inclusive and progressive. They effectively turn a blind eye because it's the easy option. No time for it personally. I try to practice what I preach.

I'd say I've got more of an appreciation for what feminism actually is than you do given that you cheapen it by using it to attempt to justify your prejudice. I've never, in all the years I've known you, speak about feminism unless you've used it to bash muslims.

I believe in punishing the individual, not guilt by association. A minority is not representative of a whole but you'll use any excuse to paint in broad strokes.

You just want want to police the world and force your views on everyone which, considering your views on 'PC', is so ****ing hypocritical that I can't believe you seriously typed that without any hint of self awareness. You've called me a bigot erroneously in the past for apparently 'not accepting other people's views' because you don't understand the difference between disagreeing with an opinion and shutting it down yet YOU want to march on in to other countries and force your way of thinking on them. It's beyond ridiculous.

I believe that it's wrong for us to thrust our ways onto other countries and expect them to fall in line, who are we to tell anyone in other countries what to think? It's not our place to police the world, countries that aren't as progressive as ours need to catch up at their own pace. It's not something that we can force.

The only person dealing in lip service is you, you claim to be a feminist but you see progressive attitudes as 'regression.' which makes no sense and you often screech that you feel like your opinion is being shut down yet you want to enforce your way of thinking on everyone else. You are a feminist but only when it suits you and you only believe in Freedom of Speech when it suits you too.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'd say I've got more of an appreciation for what feminism actually is than you do given that you cheapen it by using it to attempt to justify your prejudice. I've never, in all the years I've known you, speak about feminism unless you've used it to bash muslims.

I believe in punishing the individual, not guilt by association. A minority is not representative of a whole but you'll use any excuse to paint in broad strokes.

You just want want to police the world and force your views on everyone which, considering your views on 'PC', is so ****ing hypocritical that I can't believe you seriously typed that without any hint of self awareness. You've called me a bigot erroneously in the past for apparently 'not accepting other people's views' because you don't understand the difference between disagreeing with an opinion and shutting it down yet YOU want to march on in to other countries and force your way of thinking on them. It's beyond ridiculous.

I believe that it's wrong for us to thrust our ways onto other countries and expect them to fall in line, who are we to tell anyone in other countries what to think? It's not our place to police the world, countries that aren't as progressive as ours need to catch up at their own pace. It's not something that we can force.

The only person dealing in lip service is you, you claim to be a feminist but you see progressive attitudes as 'regression.' which makes no sense and you often screech that you feel like your opinion is being shut down yet you want to enforce your way of thinking on everyone else. You are a feminist but only when it suits you and you only believe in Freedom of Speech when it suits you too.

You have, as usual, completely twisted my words to suit your own agenda. I do not think we should force our views on other countries, we can't do that - even though we strongly disagree with many of their practices. Sometimes we send our military in when it becomes a humanitarian crisis.

What I said was that if we oppose certain practices in other countries such as female genital mutilation, honour killings and forced marriages we should not tolerate them here for fear of being accused of religious intolerance. Make no mistake that is what we are doing.

These things are going on in Britain ,we all know it , but we do little about it. We do pay lip-service to the wrongs of certain practices but do not do enough to actually stop it. PC gets in the way and we effectively allow girls/women to be abused under our very noses rather than risk offence and rock the boat.

We need to make it perfectly clear to religious groups that if they want to stay in Britain they abide by British laws and do not partipate in any way in these kinds of practices or they will face the consequences. Condoning such practices through inaction is regressive not progressive and not only goes against our own values it makes a mockery of feminism and women's rights. We have regressed to paying lip-service only to women's rights by turning a blind eye to the misogynistic practices carried out in the name of religion right in front of us and that is wrong.

Abandoning our own values to appease certain religious groups within our own societies is not and never will be progressive.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You have, as usual, completely twisted my words to suit your own agenda. I do not think we should force our views on other countries, we can't do that - even though we strongly disagree with many of their practices. Sometimes we send our military in when it becomes a humanitarian crisis.

What I said was that if we oppose certain practices in other countries such as female genital mutilation, honour killings and forced marriages we should not tolerate them here for fear of being accused of religious intolerance. Make no mistake that is what we are doing.

These things are going on in Britain ,we all know it , but we do little about it. We do pay lip-service to the wrongs of certain practices but do not do enough to actually stop it. PC gets in the way and we effectively allow girls/women to be abused under our very noses rather than risk offence and rock the boat.

We need to make it perfectly clear to religious groups that if they want to stay in Britain they abide by British laws and do not partipate in any way in these kinds of practices or they will face the consequences. Condoning such practices through inaction is regressive not progressive and not only goes against our own values it makes a mockery of feminism and women's rights. We have regressed to paying lip-service only to women's rights by turning a blind eye to the misogynistic practices carried out in the name of religion right in front of us and that is wrong.

Abandoning our own values to appease certain religious groups within our own societies is not and never will be progressive.

There's a national unit in place for dealing with Forced Marriage (The FMU) and there's more being done to educate hospital staff to report instances of FGM but it's a difficult thing to prevent from happening, same with honour killings, You can't do a whole lot to prevent a violent crime from occurring, Like with any kind of violent crime, you just have to have faith that the investigation will turn up results.

You keep whining that not enough is being done but what would you realistically do? Go on, oh wise Brillo, try offering solutions instead of complaints. It's nothing to do with PC, it's just difficult to prosecute cases of FGM in particular because, like rape, it has a low report rate. You can't prevent Honour Killings from happening just like you can't prevent your average person from killing another. You can only investigate and prosecute it after the fact.

Oh look, another example of you only bringing up feminism as a weapon to attack a group of people with. You speak too much in broad strokes, you blame all muslims for the actions of a few and that attitude causes division. I'm all for educating people but it sounds like you want to treat any and all muslims with suspicion just on the grounds of their religion and that's the real problem and why things won't get better.

Nobody is abandoning their values, that's just another hysterical and emotional response rather than a factual one.