[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That debate has been done ad nauseum so I won't entertain it again but if you had such an issue with a remark you found to be baiting and insulting to members of the forum, why don't you have an issue with a poster denigrating young people and people on the left with petty and inflammatory comments?

I didn't say I didn't have an issue with it, if I agreed with any of those comments maybe you could find it for me. I don't agree with mass generalisations tbf, usually when Brillo reacts in this way it is a result of provocation, is she meant to just take it all on the chin?

anyway I have had enough of this points have been made. I'm off to do some work.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I didn't say I didn't have an issue with it, if I agreed with any of those comments maybe you could find it for me. I don't agree with mass generalisations tbf, usually when Brillo reacts in this way it is a result of provocation, is she meant to just take it all on the chin?

anyway I have had enough of this points have been made. I'm off to do some work.

Absolving Brillo of any blame and pretending that she never insults anyone first is akin to agreeing with the use of such comments as far as I'm concerned. She sometimes opens threads with these remarks, posting another article about Jeremy Corbyn and then making an inflammatory dig about those who voted for him being deluded and naive. I'm sure I could find several examples of this if I could be bothered.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

that's fine Josy but if one person is infracted for giving it out while another isn't its hardly a level playing field, and let's face it getting infracted is usually down to a member hammering the report button rather than a mod picking up on any offence, would you agree or not?

This probably isn't allowed or w/e but;



The top couple are recent enough to still be "active". Can we put the ridiculous claims that only certain people get infracted to bed, yet? I've also had a 48 (I think) hour ban within 2017 ffs.

[edit] Edited one out to save sparking an old argument

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This probably isn't allowed or w/e but;



The top couple are recent enough to still be "active". Can we put the ridiculous claims that only certain people get infracted to bed, yet? I've also had a 48 (I think) hour ban within 2017 ffs.

[edit] Edited one out to save sparking an old argument

And this doesn't make you ask yourself if you are insulting people excessively?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Absolving Brillo of any blame and pretending that she never insults anyone first is akin to agreeing with the use of such comments as far as I'm concerned. She sometimes opens threads with these remarks, posting another article about Jeremy Corbyn and then making an inflammatory dig about those who voted for him being deluded and naive. I'm sure I could find several examples of this if I could be bothered.

Oh come on - have you conveniently forgotten the threads about May that got very personal and insulting. Besides politicians are up for criticism. You can't stop people criticising any politician unless you want to live in some kind of police state.

As for any comments about his supporters in general I can remember plenty of threads bashing tory supporters and EU leavers. I would have thought that when people start on individuals there is more of a problem.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

And this doesn't make you ask yourself if you are insulting people excessively?

Good point.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by jet

Well perhaps you should go somewhere you can find real racists and do your bit, there are none here.

Theres been plenty of posts on here lately that are personal opinions but that certainly do come across as being racist so if some are going to shout on about free speech and wanting these opinions to be allowed and so on then I'm sure as hell that others will most definitely be allowed to question those views..

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Josy

Theres been plenty of posts on here lately that are personal opinions but that certainly do come across as being racist so if some are going to shout on about free speech and wanting these opinions to be allowed and so on then I'm sure as hell that others will most definitely be allowed to question those views..

I think there is a huge difference with questioning views and pointing fingers. The latter is what we see a lot more than the former in SD.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Oh come on - have you conveniently forgotten the threads about May that got very personal and insulting. Besides politicians are up for criticism. You can't stop people criticising any politician unless you want to live in some kind of police state.

As for any comments about his supporters in general I can remember plenty of threads bashing tory supporters and EU leavers. I would have thought that when people start on individuals there is more of a problem.

The threads about May got very personal and insulting indeed. Towards her. As an elected official I can insult her as much as I want, just as you can towards Jeramy Corbyn. The difference is we're talking about blanket and derisive insults towards their supporters, which makes debates hostile and provokes arguments. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I've never partaken in that because that would be disingenuous, but I bet I could count on one hand the number of times that's happened without being provoked first.

Brillo, you regularly open your Corbyn and Labour bashing threads with a disparaging remark along the lines of 'his supporters are naive', 'these young left wingers are deluded and can't see the wood for the trees', etc etc. If you give it out, expect it back, you aren't making those comments without wanting a reaction.

Just to be clear, the reason this particular discussion began with Cherie was because she attempted to make out you never insult anyone without being provoked. I wanted to challenge that.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think there is a huge difference with questioning views and pointing fingers. The latter is what we see a lot more than the former in SD.

Of course there is and its something we have actually been going over in admin lately.

I dont agree that we see a lot more of the pointing finger type post, what we do see imo is that some dont like the opinions they have being questioned and challenged so complain that they are being accused and insulted etc.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

And this doesn't make you ask yourself if you are insulting people excessively?

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Good point.

Not really, the long-standing "discussing other members in any way" rule comes under that category. Also, is the moderation policy right or wrong? You need to make up your minds on that one. One minute it's all wrong and only certain people get infractions while others are let off with murder and the mods are biased and incorrect... and then when you see that actually, "both sides" get plenty of infractions all of a sudden the infractions are all fair and correct and I should take them as an indication that I need to think about my behaviour?

...Which is it? Let me guess; All of Brillo (and others) infractions are unfair biased ones due to people "spamming the report button"... but all of my infractions are fair and reasonable and no one has ever hit the report button? .

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Josy

Of course there is and its something we have actually been going over in admin lately.

I dont agree that we see a lot more of the pointing finger type post, what we do see imo is that some dont like the opinions they have being questioned and challenged so complain that they are being accused and insulted etc.

I would agree that is a valid statement but then lots of times I've seen people outrightly accuse others of being racist and bigots. I see these words used frequently. I think you can question a point of view without throwing those labels around like candy. They are as offensive as any point of view you might disagree with.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

oh you mean like the much loved "cat ladies" innocent remark which a lot of members found hilarious but apparently was not meant to offend

The "cat ladies" remark that once pointed out was not acceptable no one had ever used ?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I would agree that is a valid statement but then lots of times I've seen people outrightly accuse others of being racist and bigots. I see these words used frequently. I think you can question a point of view without throwing those labels around like candy. They are as offensive as any point of view you might disagree with.

So your view is that no one, ever, under any circumstances should be accused of racism? Or can we say "I find this post racist" without calling the poster racist? Because that just seems like semantics. If it's never acceptable, what IS anyone supposed to say when they find a post to be xenophobic or racist? Does the same apply to accusing someone of homophobia or sexism?

I'd also like to see where the terms are "thrown around like candy" because there are plenty of people on here whose views I've found dubious but I've only ever accused TWO members on here of outright racism, one being Brillo in a number of threads, and the other was indeed Kirk (in a thread where he stated very firmly that people from the middle east are genetically predisposed to violence and killing by their very nature, and we hashed that one out over PM quite successfully in the end).

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not really, the long-standing "discussing other members in any way" rule comes under that category. Also, is the moderation policy right or wrong? You need to make up your minds on that one. One minute it's all wrong and only certain people get infractions while others are let off with murder and the mods are biased and incorrect... and then when you see that actually, "both sides" get plenty of infractions all of a sudden the infractions are all fair and correct and I should take them as an indication that I need to think about my behaviour?

...Which is it? Let me guess; All of Brillo (and others) infractions are unfair biased ones due to people "spamming the report button"... but all of my infractions are fair and reasonable and no one has ever hit the report button? .

Well to be fair I have never claimed all the mods are biased and incorrect.

As to the infractions you have a lot in comparison to personal experience. I'm quite happy to tell you I've reported you for baiting before, all the others you've managed without my help. I never reported posts in the past but your constant baiting of me and others got the better of me and I decided telling you about it was pointless.

[DemolitionRed]

Have we ever had a Muslim on this debate channel?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Have we ever had a Muslim on this debate channel?

Yes, and his contributions to debates on the matter were always insightful and worthwhile. I'd have loved to have seen him take on some of the nonsense that's posted in this section now.

Sadly, he was permanently banned for other reasons. I can't remember if there's any other Muslims on here.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well to be fair I have never claimed all the mods are biased and incorrect.

As to the infractions you have a lot in comparison to personal experience. I'm quite happy to tell you I've reported you for baiting before, all the others you've managed without my help. I never reported posts in the past but your constant baiting of me and others got the better of me and I decided telling you about it was pointless.

I don't mind that you've reported me Jaxie, I don't actually mind getting infractions. It is what it is. The point is really... the mods are fairly active / present in this forum and most people I'm sure get infractions from time to time. I very much doubt that most are down to reports rather than a mod just happening to be present in the thread in question; in fact i think most of them come when a thread gets "closed for cleaning" and multiple people of differing opinions get infracted at the same time. I don't know where people are getting the idea that if they get an infraction, they must have been reported, or that the mods are biased and don't give infractions to certain people. It's just not true. All I'm complaining about here is the "playing the victim" that some people have when complaining about infractions / bans / mod favouritism. I don't really give a stuff about my own infractions . No offense intended mods / admins / etc (though I suspect you probably already knew this).

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Have we ever had a Muslim on this debate channel?

yes Salman, I loved him like he was my own

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This probably isn't allowed or w/e but;

lovely too see my hard work being rewarded

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The threads about May got very personal and insulting indeed. Towards her. As an elected official I can insult her as much as I want, just as you can towards Jeramy Corbyn. The difference is we're talking about blanket and derisive insults towards their supporters, which makes debates hostile and provokes arguments. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I've never partaken in that because that would be disingenuous, but I bet I could count on one hand the number of times that's happened without being provoked first.

Brillo, you regularly open your Corbyn and Labour bashing threads with a disparaging remark along the lines of 'his supporters are naive', 'these young left wingers are deluded and can't see the wood for the trees', etc etc. If you give it out, expect it back, you aren't making those comments without wanting a reaction.

Just to be clear, the reason this particular discussion began with Cherie was because she attempted to make out you never insult anyone without being provoked. I wanted to challenge that.

When I do it's because I am sick of all the sarcastic digs about those that voted for the Tories as well as those that voted to leave. You see in that regard it is very much a two-way street.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

lovely too see my hard work being rewarded

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

lovely too see my hard work being rewarded

stop taking the thread off topic - Kizzy's work

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yes, and his contributions to debates on the matter were always insightful and worthwhile. I'd have loved to have seen him take on some of the nonsense that's posted in this section now.

Sadly, he was permanently banned for other reasons. I can't remember if there's any other Muslims on here.

I'm not sure if it was the same person but there was a young Muslim who was very critical of Muslims and their practices - but can't remember their name.

[DemolitionRed]

I've still got a tendency to go ape when I get infracted. I use one forum group that have no boundaries and can get seriously nasty and then I come on here and get a slapping off the mods. Its taken me a while to get used to just how polite and pc this place is.

Not that I'm complaining but this honestly is a very polite and safe place to comment compared to other places.