[Sunny_01]

Amy seriously look it up, they are not that accurate, in fact many countries will not accept them in court as they are so unpredictable. All they do is check a persons blood pressure etc.. in response to certain questions, someone who is a real cool cucumber (DR) could well fool this type of machine.

Yes they went to the trouble of having IVF to have children as they had a genuine desire to have children, but that does not mean that something did not happen to Madeline while in their care.

We are all being realistic here, there is as much circumstantial evidence to say they may have been involved as there is to say they may not have been, we all have different opinions on what could and could not have happened. I would never rule someone out just because of who they are, what they do, how they appear to behave.

[spacebandit]

The simplistic methodology used in polygraph testing has no grounding in the scientific method: it is no more scientific than astrology or tarot cards. Government agencies value it because people who don't realize it's a fraud sometimes make damaging admissions. But as a result of reliance on this voodoo science, the truthful are often falsely branded as liars while the deceptive pass through.

Perversely, the "test" is inherently biased against the truthful, because the more honestly one answers the "control" questions, and as a consequence feels less stress when answering them, the more likely one is to fail. Conversely, liars can beat the test by covertly augmenting their physiological reactions to the "control" questions. This can be done, for example, by doing mental arithmetic, thinking exciting thoughts, altering one's breathing pattern, or simply biting the side of the tongue. Truthful persons can also use these techniques to protect themselves against the risk of a false positive outcome. Although polygraphers frequently claim they can detect such countermeasures, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to do so, and peer-reviewed research suggests that they can't.

http://www.antipolygraph.org/index.shtml

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.p...e_detector.php

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

British police have only played a small part in the overall investigation. The British police have to rely on the integrity of the evidence found by those portuguese idiots.

Not even the portuguese police have claimed what you suggest regarding the body in a car.....All they have said that there is DNA which may be a match or close match. That's a long way from saying for sure a body has been placed in the car. Other close relatives have used that car.....

Sticks I really hope you have not or ever get the chance to do jury service. Such a prospect is really scary...

[Sticks]

It looks like the Portuguese DA knows they did it, hence the warning to the police that they need to find the body or the McCanns will escape justice.

source

He has 10 boxes of evidence so there must be something in it, just not quite enough for a conviction.

Reminds me of the Scottish verdict of "Not Proven" where it means, we think you did it, but they did not quite prove it.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks


Reminds me of the Scottish verdict of "Not Proven" where it means, we think you did it, but they did not quite prove it.

Also the US standard of Civil Liability

Where there is not enough evidence to convict you in a criminal trial where it has to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt", but you can be found guilty in a civil trial where the burden of proof is the "balance of probabilities"

OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder in a criminal trial but found culpable in a civil case

[Sticks]

Source

COPS CLOSE IN ON MADDIE

POLICE were last night ordered to find Madeleine McCann’s body to stop her parents “escaping” justice.

Prosecutors are convinced Kate McCann killed her daughter and roped in husband Gerry to help dispose of the corpse.

But they have warned unless Madeleine’s body is found the couple may never be charged in connection with her death.

Last night detectives in Portugal revealed they were no longer looking for the “living” four-year-old.

Prosecutors may charge the McCanns, both 39, with child neglect for leaving Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie while they dined in a tapas bar 40 yards away in Praia da Luz.

The offence carries a maximum two-year jail sentence in Portugal.

Manslaughter, the charge police want to bring against Kate, carries a maximum three years. Last night the McCanns said the legal battle would be a “long haul” and could take a year.

Police chiefs are convinced former hospital anaesthetist Kate killed her daughter with an accidental overdose of sedatives.

They believe the couple hid the body close to their apartment, then moved it in a Renault Scenic they hired three weeks later.

Brit police sniffer dogs found a “death scent” in the car, the McCanns’ apartment, on some of Kate’s clothes, and on Madeleine’s favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat.

Body fluids with an 88% match to Madeleine’s DNA were found in the spare tyre well under the carpet in the Renault’s boot.

But last night one of Portugal’s most senior prosecutors Antonio Cluny said evidence alone was not enough to bring death charges.

Mr Cluny, president of the District Attorneys and Magistrates Council in Portugal, said: “Without the little girl’s body everything is extremely complicated.”

Police are planning to dig near the resort’s tiny hillside church.

A senior police source said: “Finding the body is currently our great priority.

“Operations in that sense are being developed, although so far without results.

“It is fundamental to solving the case. The inquiry can go on but the truth is without finding the little girl it will be almost impossible to accuse the couple of any crime. They will escape.”

Last night a source close to the McCanns’ legal team said the couple feared a cloud of suspicion would forever be hanging over them.

He said: “If a body is not found and they are not charged then they will have this hanging over them. But that is unacceptable because they are innocent. Why should they have this stain on their character?

“The suggestion that they have to face justice or escape justice is loaded with assumptions of their guilt, which is untrue.

“A body never being found is the worst case scenario because nobody, least of all them, will ever know what has happened.

“It is every parent’s nightmare.”

My emboldening

This is exactly what they need to do. Once they have them locked up in prison away from the PR spin machine, they are bound to finally get a confession out of them. It beggars belief that they have not done that already

[Amy21]

Regardless of all the Madeleine stuff I dont think the parents should be locked up for leaving their children on their own that night. There hardly the first parents to do this and wont be the last so I dont think they should be put in prison. They are very sorry for leaving their children on their own and everyone must know they regret doing that and wish they could turn back the clock and not leave them on their own. And I dont think putting them in prison just so all the stress of it all makes them confess to murdering Madeleine will help as they DIDNT murder her. Madeleine has been took by some sick out there not her parents. Some people on here need to open their eyes and realise the parents are innocent and the gulity person is out there somewhere getting away with it all and doing anything to Madeleine or even have murdered her. You should all be supporting the parents in their time of need and be on the look out for the gulity person who has took Madeleine.

[Sunny_01]

Amy I think it is unfair of you to tell people to open their eye's, we all have different feelings about this, we all think differently and are all entitled to your opinion. I admire that you have strong feelings about this but so does Sticks so please show him some respect for his thoughts on the matter.

I have mixed feelings about the case and actually agree that charges should be brough for leaving their children, had they not done so none of this might have happened. Why should they be left alone and not be punished for what is tantamount to neglect.

I would love Madeline to be found with an emphasis on ALIVE but I think sadly she will now be dead, either way this needs to come to some conclusion

[Sticks]

They continue to dig thier own graves

Portuguese police have reacted furiously after learning Gerry and Kate McCann have hired a team of private investigators to help find missing Madeleine.

Police trade union chief Carlos Anjos said such a move could be illegal and described it as "another diversion manoeuvre by the McCanns".

The McCanns are reported to have contracted Control Risks Group, which employs ex-SAS and MI5 staff.

Under Portuguese law the couple are not allowed to undertake their own investigations while the police probe is ongoing.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Amy21
Regardless of all the Madeleine stuff I dont think the parents should be locked up for leaving their children on their own that night. There hardly the first parents to do this and wont be the last so I dont think they should be put in prison.

The difference is when couple X from the council estate, or the single parent leaves their kids and go to the pub for a few hours - if something bad happens, social services swarm all over them, despite their grief and take the other kids into care. Those parents have to fight in court to regain custody.

But not in this case

[Sunny_01]

From sky news

'New Photo Looks Like Madeleine'
Updated: 10:53, Wednesday September 26, 2007

A recent photo taken in Morocco showing a young girl appears "on the face of it, to look like Madeleine", according to the spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann.

Clarence Mitchell told Sky News that, even if it was not the missing child, the dramatic development took people away from "speculation and ill-founded gossip".

The image was taken by a Spanish tourist in Zinat in northern Morocco on August 31 and shows a light-skinned, blonde-haired child being carried on an elderly woman's back.

The tourist, Clara Torres, downloaded the picture onto her computer and discovered a "chilling likeness" to the missing girl.

Mr Mitchell said he could not comment on the McCanns' personal reaction to the photo because of "bitter experience" over previous sightings that came to nothing.

"You can imagine the emotional rollercoaster that causes Gerry and Kate each time this sort of information comes in.

"But it is an image and it does appear, on the face of it, to look like Madeleine and it clearly raises some very fundamental questions."

The photo, which Mr Mitchell said the McCanns' legal team had passed the Portuguese police, is now being scrutinised by Interpol experts.

"Even if this picture turns out not to be her, it is to the good because it brings people's minds back to finding Madeleine and taking them away from all the speculation and ill-founded gossip that has surrounded this in recent weeks."

Mr Mitchell referred to other "sightings" in Morocco - two in Marrakech in early May and one from a woman on the coast more recently.

"If it's not Madeleine, there's certainly a child in the area that looks very much like her. That's a matter for the investigating authorities."

He said the McCanns had been encouraged by the approach of the Moroccan police when they visited the country in June as part of their publicity drive. Officials had sent their daughter's photo to every health centre in the country.

"They said, if she's in our country, we will find her."

The spokesman added that Mr and Mrs McCann clung to the belief their daughter was alive.

"Each day that passes without her body being found actually means it's a day closer to her being brought home alive and well

[~Kizwiz~]

I've seen the photo and it does have some resemblance to Maddie, but it too burred to make out if its her.

I supposed with modern technology it can be cleared up and face recognition can be used.

Does seem strange that an elderly Moroccan woman would have a white little girl strapped to her back

[Sunny_01]

caution urged around madeline photo

People have been urged to not get to excited about the possible sighting and photograph of Madeline taken in Morrocco.

Kiz I agree it is very blurred but I am sure with technology the experts will be able to get a much closer, clearer picture than we can see.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
From sky news

'New Photo Looks Like Madeleine'
Updated: 10:53, Wednesday September 26, 2007

A recent photo taken in Morocco showing a young girl appears "on the face of it, to look like Madeleine", according to the spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann.

Clarence Mitchell told Sky News that, even if it was not the missing child, the dramatic development took people away from "speculation and ill-founded gossip".

The image was taken by a Spanish tourist in Zinat in northern Morocco on August 31 and shows a light-skinned, blonde-haired child being carried on an elderly woman's back.

The tourist, Clara Torres, downloaded the picture onto her computer and discovered a "chilling likeness" to the missing girl.

Mr Mitchell said he could not comment on the McCanns' personal reaction to the photo because of "bitter experience" over previous sightings that came to nothing.

"You can imagine the emotional rollercoaster that causes Gerry and Kate each time this sort of information comes in.

"But it is an image and it does appear, on the face of it, to look like Madeleine and it clearly raises some very fundamental questions."

The photo, which Mr Mitchell said the McCanns' legal team had passed the Portuguese police, is now being scrutinised by Interpol experts.

"Even if this picture turns out not to be her, it is to the good because it brings people's minds back to finding Madeleine and taking them away from all the speculation and ill-founded gossip that has surrounded this in recent weeks."

Mr Mitchell referred to other "sightings" in Morocco - two in Marrakech in early May and one from a woman on the coast more recently.

"If it's not Madeleine, there's certainly a child in the area that looks very much like her. That's a matter for the investigating authorities."

He said the McCanns had been encouraged by the approach of the Moroccan police when they visited the country in June as part of their publicity drive. Officials had sent their daughter's photo to every health centre in the country.

"They said, if she's in our country, we will find her."

The spokesman added that Mr and Mrs McCann clung to the belief their daughter was alive.

"Each day that passes without her body being found actually means it's a day closer to her being brought home alive and well

Rubbish - I could take a picture of a kid from across the street and say it looked a bit like her

This stinks to me,

perhaps they will jet off to Morocco to lead the hunt themselves - Morocco is a more glamorous location than Belgium - where the police where so convinced of a sighting they DNA tested a glass - the McCanns didn't go there, unlike their trips to Rome to meet the pope, and Spain and anywhere else they could gladhand with famous people. But then Belgium is seen as a bit drab and boring - but sunny Morrocco - - oohh how exciting.

This stinks of bait and switch to me - and how very convenient timing

[Sunny_01]

I suppose like I said before we will have to wait until the experts have enhanced the photo for them to decide if it is her.

I would be sorely annoyed if they fly off to Morrocco after not going to Belgium and other places where Madeline was allegedly spotted, unless evdence is given that it IS her in the photo.

[Amy21]

Look at this:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2...440681,00.html

In this photo with those people that girl is defintely Madeleine I always had that feeling inside of me that she was alive and this proves it. You see the parents didnt kill her. Now drop the whole subject of them killing her.

[Sarah.]

It's not confirmed.

[Spike]

I still think the parents killed her, the photo proves nothing

[Jackie]

The photo is very blurred and all little ones looks familar around maddies age.I still think their innocent though.

[Shaun]

If it was definitely her, there'd be a huge media storm right now. That could be any 4 year old girl, they don't all exactly look extremely different.

[Amy21]

Originally posted by mrs_rko
It's not confirmed.

Mrs_Rko it doesnt have to be confirmed by the media. That photo is proof of Madeleine still being alive. That IS her!!!!!!!!. You cant fake a little girl to look like her. That is her!!!!!!!!. The parents are innocent and I have always said this and now this proof proves everyone wrong.

[Sarah.]

Originally posted by Amy21

Mrs_Rko it doesnt have to be confirmed by the media. That photo is proof of Madeleine still being alive. That IS her!!!!!!!!. You cant fake a little girl to look like her. That is her!!!!!!!!. The parents are innocent and I have always said this and now this proof proves everyone wrong.

The photo is blurred.

How do you know for a fact that is her? I'm not saying it isn't but you're no expert at identifying photos so don't say it IS her when it hasn't been confirmed by experts. It could be any other little 4 year old blonde girl.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Amy21

Mrs_Rko it doesnt have to be confirmed by the media. That photo is proof of Madeleine still being alive. That IS her!!!!!!!!. You cant fake a little girl to look like her. That is her!!!!!!!!. The parents are innocent and I have always said this and now this proof proves everyone wrong.

how do you know that it IS her

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Amy21

Mrs_Rko it doesnt have to be confirmed by the media. That photo is proof of Madeleine still being alive. That IS her!!!!!!!!. You cant fake a little girl to look like her. That is her!!!!!!!!. The parents are innocent and I have always said this and now this proof proves everyone wrong.

No, it could be any little girl. Madeliene doesn't have a very distinctive face (apart from her eye, which isn't zoomed in far enough to see in this photo).

As much as I admire your hope and faith in her being alive and well, I don't think she is

[Spike]

I hope it is her but i dont think it is. It could be any girl in that photo a lot of girls that age look the same including my sister