[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You do that and I will continue to say my piece to.

Literally nobody was asking you to do anything else lol. Only you decided to take a general thread about racism personally. Do you have anything to add to the topic or you wanna talk about yourself some more?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah pretty much this bit in bold..see mine was the long and yours is the short of it...darn you, jet..(I will work on those shorter posts..)...

Ammi Your posts are never long enough for me, I always want more.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Literally nobody was ayou that sking you to do anything else lol. Only you decided to take a general thread about racism personally. Do you have anything to add to the topic or you wanna talk about yourself some more?

You do that enough yourself for some bizarre reason.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You do that enough yourself for some bizarre reason.

if this thread is anything to go by, its probably cos youre very willing to bring yourself up and talk about yourself for 3 or so pages

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I think on a small forum such as this is and in this section in particular, we do fairly much get a feel about opinions on certain topics which reoccur frequently..and obviously immigration being one over the last few year for various reasons/and with media attention...I have to say though...(and I have seen many 'rants' in my time.....)..I don't think I've ever seen one from any present/regular poster which I would have felt required a label of 'racist'...hmmm, there are some things that maybe over a year ago, my thoughts may have been slightly different with this for instance...but then there are things in life../..specifics etc which make us think more and even cause us to reassess etc...that's something that happens to all of us, isn't it..our life experiences/our environments..our 'stories' as it were, these are all things that mould and form or opinions, views...and yes, even our 'judgements'...anyways, what I mean is...even when someone's opinions have a tendency to be quite fixed or quite focused or quire 'ignorant' as you describe...I would assume there are reasons for that../reasons which have been formed through their own lives, experiences and through their own 'story'...in the public context of a forum, as with the discussion I had with TS...its completely understandable as well that members can be very wary of divulging personal 'stories'/experience, information which could give a better understanding of their opinions/views etc..that's obviously an individual thing and it has to feel comfortable for the person 'disclosing' ...so 'correcting' really isn't something that's in our control...and 'correcting' is like saying..something is wrong with you..../I m trying to correct your mistake etc when views and opinions aren't mistakes, they're what a person feels...I find anyway that using things like statistics and such the like is completely ineffective with anyone who may have great fears/worries/anxieties about something their thought focus on quite highly...I guess its like someone who was afraid of spiders for instance ..and then saying, look statistics show..so you're wrong to worry now hush.....so how does 'correction' happen, I mean how is it even a possibility..?..surely through communication and attaching labels will only ever delay/slow down/or break off etc...so completely counter-productive with any possible progress...anyways as I say, I have very rarely seen 'ists' on the forum...maybe questionable posts sometimes..?..and obviously those posts have been questioned and those questions been responded to etc ...those responses may not be something we can agree with ourselves in our own thoughts ..but it also doesn't indicate that the person with those responses is an 'ist' either...all that will ever do is to break down all communication and create distance...and Lord with Brexit and the split/divided vote we had there, creating more distance with opinions in this country on some very emotive topics seems like the last thing that would be progressive for any of us...

You write like your talking to me. There's a real knack to that and not something I'm very good at.

If someone makes a statement they can't later claim that as an opinion. An opinion is a belief, a statement is supposed to be factual. If I read anything that looks like a statement and I suspect that statement is inaccurate, I will, if its a subject I'm interested in, go off and research it for myself. If its incorrect then I think its only right that I or someone else corrects it because without correction, it could easily become someone else's truth. I subscribe to the Independent and I regularly join in on their comment section. If I know a story is inaccurate, I'll state that because nobody should be reading inaccurate information.

I have given away more information on this channel about my understanding of the Middle East than I would ever care to give to anyone other than close friends and I've done so out of pure frustration and the need to get my point across. That information makes me feel vulnerable and even annihilated because although its something that has fundamentally affected my life and the life of my family and its something I'm still grieving, on here, its just empty words.
I've watched Jet talk about his personal stuff with the IRA and at times I've jumped back but then I remind myself about the rawness he feels when he opens that pandoras box and I make myself listen to him and relate to what he's saying. I feel his anger and frustration and I know how familiar that emotion is. Opening yourself up on a forum of strangers isn't something I'd recommend, especially if you have enemies that may, at a later date, use those words against you.

[DemolitionRed]

deleted

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think what I'm trying to say..(..badly..)..is that we wouldn't put labels on our children.

Oh I dunno - my 8 year old is actually HORRENDOUSLY racist . The difference, of course, is that she doesn't really know any better yet.

...she refused to get a book about a fairy from her school library because the fairy was black... ...

[Tom4784]

Not our TS raising the next generation of white supremacists!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh I dunno - my 8 year old is actually HORRENDOUSLY racist . The difference, of course, is that she doesn't really know any better yet.

...she refused to get a book about a fairy from her school library because the fairy was black... ...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh I dunno - my 8 year old is actually HORRENDOUSLY racist . The difference, of course, is that she doesn't really know any better yet.

...she refused to get a book about a fairy from her school library because the fairy was black... ...

.....that’s really interesting as well, which goes back to what you said about your ‘offence’ of derailment in topics, but you’ve branched out my thoughts again with that little thing..(I’m going to assume, yes that old assumption thing again...)...that in school/in her environment etc, she hasn’t experienced ethnicities very much yet...so she’s quite fixed in her lovely head of all the things that a fairy should be...so she can’t think of it as being a fairy if it doesn’t fit in with that...all very logical really...and that goes down the whole route as well of are there enough varied ethnic characters in children’s books/children’s TV etc to represent the wider world we live in in this moment in time...and characters representing sexualities as well...also physical appearances in terms of, are those fairies all very and too ‘perfect’ in their shape/in their facial structure etc, do they have to be physically beautiful fairies with what society would see as beautiful and what books are teaching children to define beautiful...because it’s obviously how fairies have been represented to her that’s the thing...anything other than that representation is just darn well not a fairy......and that little girl wants a fairy......obviously you’ll be a big part in expanding her world of fairies, but in doing that you’ll be listening to her first in understanding what it is about specific fairy representatives she’s not comfortable with and having all of those chats together, as opposed to just labelling her a fairy hater and no she must stop thinking like that...YOU’RE NOT ENTITLED TO LITTLE MISSY TS..!!!..which will only ever hinder her thoughts and feelings from being expanded...you’ve sent my own thoughts off again, TS, which is something you do very often I have to say...you have a great day with that little fairy lady of yours...

[Ammi]

..or as Dezzy said, maybe you are raising little white supremists up there in Scotland......

[user104658]

It's basically as you say Ammi; little Scottish village where there is basically next to zero ethnic diversity. I actually don't think her school has ANY other "visible" ethnicity at all . There's a girl in her class who is something like 1/4 Native American, and she knows two kids who are 1/2 Iranian but at most their skin tone is "very light tan" and so close to white that kids most likely have no idea that there's any difference. And that's basically it! Chalk white Scottish kids otherwise.

We hadn't even really thought about it but now are trying to introduce some... Wider worldview.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's basically as you say Ammi; little Scottish village where there is basically next to zero ethnic diversity. I actually don't think her school has ANY other "visible" ethnicity at all . There's a girl in her class who is something like 1/4 Native American, and she knows two kids who are 1/2 Iranian but at most their skin tone is "very light tan" and so close to white that kids most likely have no idea that there's any difference. And that's basically it! Chalk white Scottish kids otherwise.

We hadn't even really thought about it but now are trying to introduce some... Wider worldview.

I remember back in the day when I was in primary school my mother had Pakistani friends, and their son was put into my class in school when they moved back over here from Liverpool. I claimed him as my friend and I thought I was special because I had a friend who didn't look like everyone else. I remember saying on several occasions to the other kids 'he's MY friend, not yours, my Mummy said you're not allowed to be his friend"! The other kids used to offer him sweets and stuff, they all wanted to be his friend too, but I was having none of it. I was about 7 or thereabouts.

[Jay.]

no. hate people for their personality sure or their looks but for nothing they can't change imo, i mean it's literally 2018 not 1918 anymore

[Tozzie]

people should be allowed to think what they like but in this day and age we are all being conditioned to think the same way and to accept everything and if you don't then people are made to feel as though they are a bad person. Personally I don't think that is right. Having a view other than the view that todays society thinks you should have does not make one a bad person. We are not allowing people to exercise their right to have a point of view for fear of being 'shot down' so most people who don't conform to todays society will keep their mouths shut. For us all to think the same way would mean we are brainwashed and conditioned. This world is full of offended people these days and personally I think its bloody ridiculous.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

people should be allowed to think what they like but in this day and age we are all being conditioned to think the same way and to accept everything and if you don't then people are made to feel as though they are a bad person. Personally I don't think that is right. Having a view other than the view that todays society thinks you should have does not make one a bad person. We are not allowing people to exercise their right to have a point of view for fear of being 'shot down' so most people who don't conform to todays society will keep their mouths shut. For us all to think the same way would mean we are brainwashed and conditioned. This world is full of offended people these days and personally I think its bloody ridiculous.

There is no single minded consensus in "today's society" though, its split straight down the middle... So this doesn't really make sense. Which are you suggesting that people are expected / conditioned to conform to?

If anything, the only thing its difficult to be, is nuanced and conscious of both points of view .

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

people should be allowed to think what they like but in this day and age we are all being conditioned to think the same way and to accept everything and if you don't then people are made to feel as though they are a bad person. Personally I don't think that is right. Having a view other than the view that todays society thinks you should have does not make one a bad person. We are not allowing people to exercise their right to have a point of view for fear of being 'shot down' so most people who don't conform to todays society will keep their mouths shut. For us all to think the same way would mean we are brainwashed and conditioned. This world is full of offended people these days and personally I think its bloody ridiculous.

I would say the average racist/homophobe/sexist etc is a bad person, they're certainly not a good, understanding, or compassionate one.
I feel like your point would only make sense if these people didn't know they were bad people, but I'd imagine that they'd know that most people see them that way? So I doubt that would impact their words? Would it?

Also your last sentence implies that it is ridiculous to be offended by racism/homophobia/sexism etc? Is that what you meant to say?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I would say the average racist/homophobe/sexist etc is a bad person, they're certainly not a good, understanding, or compassionate one.
I feel like your point would only make sense if these people didn't know they were bad people, but I'd imagine that they'd know that most people see them that way? So I doubt that would impact their words? Would it?

Also your last sentence implies that it is ridiculous to be offended by racism/homophobia/sexism etc? Is that what you meant to say?

At no point did she specify what people were offended by. As we all know all these PC people needing safe spaces get offended very easily by very little. Besides, again as any reasonable person knows, the Definition and opinions of the PC brigade can be a little hysterically biased to say the least.

I would say the average PC bully who tries to control and marginalise others who will not conform to their way of thinking is a bad person. A bully is a bully whatever label they hide behind.

The behaviour of many left wingers of late has been pretty dictorial to say the least. There are no good dictators and no pleasant extremes.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Withano

I would say the average racist/homophobe/sexist etc is a bad person, they're certainly not a good, understanding, or compassionate one.
I feel like your point would only make sense if these people didn't know they were bad people, but I'd imagine that they'd know that most people see them that way? So I doubt that would impact their words? Would it?

Also your last sentence implies that it is ridiculous to be offended by racism/homophobia/sexism etc? Is that what you meant to say?

My last sentence never mentioned anything about racism, homophobia, sexism, you said that not me............people are shouting 'I'm offended' for just about anything these days. I'm overweight and people have in the past called me names or said something rotten and while I might feel a bit sad about it at first I don't feel the need to shout 'i'm offended' I just feel sorry for the person who felt the need to try upset me because it speaks volumes about the type of person they are and then I get on with my day.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I would say the average PC bully who tries to control and marginalise others who will no conform to their way of thinking is a bad person. A bully is a bully whatever label they hide behind.

The behaviour of many left wingers of late has been pretty dictorial to say the least. There are no good dictators and no pleasant extremes.

I don't know what left wingers have to do with this unless you're calling right wingers racist/homophobic/sexists?

But still yes, I believe they're bad people, obviously. Do you think they're good people in general?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

My last sentence never mentioned anything about racism, homophobia, sexism, you said that not me............people are shouting 'I'm offended' for just about anything these days. I'm overweight and people have in the past called me names or said something rotten and while I might feel a bit sad about it at first I don't feel the need to shout 'i'm offended' I just feel sorry for the person who felt the need to try upset me because it speaks volumes about the type of person they are and then I get on with my day.

Well the thread is about racism, homophobia and sexism, I was unsure how much of your post was ontopic.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I don't know what left wingers have to do with this unless you're calling right wingers racist/homophobic/sexists?

But still yes, I believe they're bad people, obviously. Do you think they're good people in general?

I’m simply going by the often shouty left wingers on here. Ring any bells.

[thesheriff443]

People have the right to be anti gay anti race and have sexist views, it's more about who, how and where they are voiced.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m simply going by the often shouty left wingers on here. Ring any bells.

So your post wasn't about the topic either? You guys need to start making this clearer

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

So your post wasn't about the topic either? You guys need to start making this clearer

You do love playing the joker - is that another label you like to hide behind.