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Old 11-04-2018, 02:05 PM   #601
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Yes, some cry racist at the slightest opportunity but when it comes to antisemitism they write the biggest load of crap trying to make excuses for it. It's been a real eye opener; odd how they only 'care' when it suits their own agenda's. Sickening.
Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all.

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:55 PM   #602
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Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all.

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.
Do you call the vile things posted by Corbyn's Labour pals about Jews just 'any word against Judaism?' - or Corbyn's support of the mural and his malaise in stamping out the antisemitism 'just any word' for that matter? Because its not 'just any word', is it, it's extreme and pervasive.
Flip it right on its head and think if May and the Tories had done/were doing the same against Muslims - would May supporters on this forum be bending over backwards to make excuses for her and her cronies like some Corbyn supporters here have done for their Idol? I don't think so! There would be uproar, and rightly so!
They cry RACIST and act like like sniffer dogs when any aspect, however slight, of any criticism of Islam is mentioned. But because it's Corbyn and his pals the excuses are wheeled out to excuse the antisemitism and its not poor Jeremy's fault anyway - its the big bad media out to destroy him. It's blatant hypocrisy and its pathetic - and very worrying.

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Old 11-04-2018, 03:32 PM   #603
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Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all.

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.
I suppose the main difference is that Islamic terrorists are waging war on the West, killing innocents, wanting to drag us all back to the dark ages. Check out all the top ten lists of most wanted terrorists and tell me what they all have in common. And we ALL understand that Muslims are generally peaceful... Islamists and Jihadists though, they're terrorists.

Jewish people haven't waged war on anyone, and yet here we are, in 2018, having to accept the usual sickening racism because we're only Jews.

Anti-Semitism is more and more accepted. And when supporters of a major political party ignore a protest by ordinary, moderate Jews, with no axe to grind, I shouldn't be surprised at all the comments on here in support of Corbyn and his party.

Last edited by Livia; 11-04-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:47 PM   #604
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Flip it right on its head and think if May and the Tories had done/were doing the same against Muslims - would May supporters on this forum be bending over backwards to make excuses for her and her cronies like some Corbyn supporters here have done for their Idol? I don't think so! There would be uproar, and rightly so!
With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.



For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia.

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.

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Old 11-04-2018, 04:10 PM   #605
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With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.



For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia.

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.
I honestly can't think of one person here who would go to the extremes of denial that some Corbyn supporters have. Does May have fanatical followers? People are deserting their principles to defend this man, no matter what he has done or is doing.
Israel and Zionism are not the topic of this thread and were used repeatedly to divert attention away from Labour and antisemitism. I suggested several times to Red who professed great interest in those subjects that he make a dedicated thread as I would like to learn more about them, but this was ignored.
I agree with your last paragraph.

Last edited by jet; 11-04-2018 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:29 PM   #606
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I suppose the main difference is that Islamic terrorists are waging war on the West, killing innocents, wanting to drag us all back to the dark ages. Check out all the top ten lists of most wanted terrorists and tell me what they all have in common. And we ALL understand that Muslims are generally peaceful... Islamists and Jihadists though, they're terrorists.

Jewish people haven't waged war on anyone, and yet here we are, in 2018, having to accept the usual sickening racism because we're only Jews.

Anti-Semitism is more and more accepted. And when supporters of a major political party ignore a protest by ordinary, moderate Jews, with no axe to grind, I shouldn't be surprised at all the comments on here in support of Corbyn and his party.
I agree with this! Jewish people arenít running children down and planting bombs at pop concerts. No comparison.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:44 PM   #607
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I honestly can't think of one person here who would go to the extremes of denial that some Corbyn supporters have. Does May have fanatical followers? People are deserting their principles to defend this man, no matter what he has done or is doing.
Israel and Zionism are not the topic of this thread and were used repeatedly to divert attention away from Labour and antisemitism. I suggested several times to Red who professed great interest in those subjects that he make a dedicated thread as I would like to learn more about them, but this was ignored.
I agree with your last paragraph.
Many Corbyn supporters had very high expectations of him and blindly believed all his empty promises. They will not accept that he isnít the man they wanted him to be as they canít face up to being exposed as such bad judges of character. It is easier to detract than face the truth. How long can they do that though!
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:50 PM   #608
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Great, astute posts from Kirk and Ammi as always.
Thank you, Jet. It's nice to hear that some people appreciate my 'boring diatribes'.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:54 PM   #609
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Can I excuse myself from giving a direct opinion on that. I would hate having to lie about it!
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That's what made it doubly funny.
The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:07 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.

For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia.

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.
Anti-Semitism in the UK is far more WIDESPREAD than Islamaphobia and HAS been for many decades.

EVERY single day, incidents by antiSemitic bullies against innocent Jewish people go virtually unreported - or if reported go virtually unnoticed.

Whereas supporting Islam and railing loudly against Islamaphobics is fashionable and Politically Correct, anti-Semitism is not such a big deal to so-called liberals and progressives - which is WHY Corbyn and his Labour Party have been TEFLON-COATED for so extraordinary a long time given the facts of THEIR antiSemitism.

Here's a snippet about Anti-Semitism which WAS 'picked up' by some 'National Newspapers':
Student is suspended at £35,000-a-year boarding school for 'trying to force-feed Jewish schoolboy HAM pizza'

Clifton College student was suspended after he tried to feed a Jewish pupil ham.

The boy 'suffered psychologically' after the incident at the £35k-a-year school
The prestigious school in Bristol said anti-Semitism is 'abhorrent and 'pernicious'.

The Jewish teenager remained at the prestigious school alongside his alleged attacker, who was allowed back into classes after a short suspension.

Insiders said the suspended boy was on the periphery of another incident at the school a few years ago where a pupil - who was later expelled - wore a Nazi costume.

The Jewish student was at the prestigious Clifton College in Bristol (pictured) and was almost forced to eat a pizza with ham toppings

Religious community leaders and parents have voiced concerns about the incident, which happened in December.

The school has its own synagogue and had a schoolhouse dedicated to Jewish students until 2005.

A high profile member of Bristol's Jewish community, who wished to remain anonymous, said: 'I would like to express disappointment felt by the local Jewish community at the school's lack of response.

'It isn't the first case of anti-Semitism at Clifton College.

'The fact it happened in the first place is awful but the way in which Clifton College has brushed it under the carpet is much worse.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:08 PM   #611
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The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
It would have been funny to me if it had said 'Jet' or any other forum member...
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:09 PM   #612
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It would have been funny to me if it had said 'Jet' or any other forum member...
I don't really care tbh.

If you were being discussed in a thread you weren't involved in you'd soon be hitting that report button.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:14 PM   #613
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The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
Whatís sad is you coming back immediately on the attack.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:21 PM   #614
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Whatís sad is you coming back immediately on the attack.
You discussed me. Just remember that when you're throwing blame onto others.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:27 PM   #615
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I don't really care tbh.

If you were being discussed in a thread you weren't involved in you'd soon be hitting that report button.
Wrong. I rarely report anything. Maybe 3 times a year.

I just found it funny, it really wasn't personal. I apologise for offending you.

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Old 11-04-2018, 09:49 PM   #616
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Wrong. I rarely report anything. Maybe 3 times a year.

I just found it funny, it really wasn't personal. I apologise for offending you.
You didn't offend me, I just found it hypocritical discussing other members you don't really get on with. If I'd done it, you'd no doubt have had something to say.

But hey-ho. Done now.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:31 AM   #617
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Report: Anti-Semitism rises, but violence against Jews falls
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04...ews-falls.html

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TEL AVIV, Israel Ė Violent attacks on Jews worldwide dropped in 2017 despite a rise in other forms of anti-Semitism, researchers reported Wednesday, in a year characterized by normalization and mainstreaming of anti-Semitism not seen in Europe since World War II.

Researchers at Tel Aviv University said assaults specifically targeting Jews fell 9 percent last year. They recorded 327 cases compared to 361 in 2016, which had already been the lowest number in a decade.

But they noted attacks were far more brazen. Most dramatic were a pair of cases in France, where a Jewish woman was thrown to her death out of her apartment window and a Holocaust survivor was stabbed and burned to death in her Paris home.

Threats, harassment and insults have also driven thousands of French Jews to relocate.

"Neither the public nor the private space is perceived as safe for Jews," said Moshe Kantor, president of the European Jewish Congress, an umbrella group representing Jewish communities across the continent. "The general feeling shared by Jews, as individuals and as a community, is that anti-Semitism has entered a new phase, and is widespread in most parts of the world."

Tel Aviv University's Kantor Center for the Study of Contemporary European Jewry releases the report every year on the eve of Israel's Holocaust memorial day, which begins Wednesday at sundown.

Increased security measures are credited with reducing violence, but it may be masking a trend of anti-Semitism becoming more mainstream and acceptable, particularly in European politics. The report described a toxic triangle made up of the rise of the extreme right, radical Islamism and a heated anti-Zionist discourse on the left accompanied by anti-Semitic expressions.

"The religious dimension of classic, traditional anti-Semitism has returned, and the term 'Jew' has become an insult," Kantor said.

He noted that the majority of anti-Semitic incidents still went unreported, either out of fear of retribution or a lack of interest on the part of local authorities.

Despite the overall drop, anti-Semitism rose in many places globally. In Germany, home to the world's fastest growing Jewish community, there was a rise in anti-Semitic acts from 644 in 2016 to 707 in 2017. Among these were 24 violent cases in 2017, compared to 15 the year before.

Kantor also said that the ascendancy of British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn led him to believe that "the banality and normalization of Jew-hatred has reached the highest levels."

Critics say Corbyn, a longtime critic of Israel, has long allowed anti-Jewish prejudice to go unchecked. Corbyn's supporters have been accused of sharing Holocaust denial and international Jewish banking conspiracies on social media. On Tuesday, Israel's Labor Party suspended its ties with Corbyn over his party's expressions of anti-Semitism.

The year was also marked by the deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia ó where demonstrators used the Heil Hitler salute, donned swastikas and chanted slogans such as "Jews will not replace us." Far-right parties gained strength following elections in Germany and Austria. U.S. President Donald Trump's December recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel also set off demonstrations that were used as a pretext to attack Jews with anti-Semitic slogans, including calls for murder.

The report cited an audit of the Anti-Defamation League that found anti-Semitic incidents in the United States rose 57 percent in 2017 ó the largest single-year increase on record and the second highest number reported since the ADL started tracking such data in 1979. The sharp rise was due in part to a significant increase in incidents in schools and on college campuses, which nearly doubled for the second year in a row.

The rising threat appears to be drawing growing interest.

Israel recently hosted a global forum to address the various ways of combatting anti-Semitism that drew experts from around the world. Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial says there has been wide participation in its recently launched online course on the origins of anti-Semitism.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:15 AM   #618
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Thank you, Jet. It's nice to hear that some people appreciate my 'boring diatribes'.
Well seeing as it was removed for some reason why refer to it? that was my opinion, you give yours so freely on my views. :/
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:50 AM   #619
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Report: Anti-Semitism rises, but violence against Jews falls
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04...ews-falls.html
Thanks for this Maru.

It is really informative.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:37 AM   #620
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Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:02 AM   #621
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Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?
I have my own theory on that Kaz.

I think some type of subliminal genetic memory may be in all of us that the Jews are 'God's Chosen People' - a type of unconscious resentment.

Added to this, of course, is the fact that the Jewish people - speaking GENERALLY, of course, 'don't want no shet-storm' to ensue - are exceptionally hard-working and throughout history have excelled in business and commerce and other fields.

More recently, of course, is the fact that it seems to bother a LOT of people that from Screen-Writers to Actors through Directors and Producers, Jewish people EXCEL in Hollywood, the film industry and theatre.

Such people accuse Jewish people of CONTROLLING Hollywood etc, but there is a difference in Dominating by Excellence and Controlling.

I really do believe that JEALOUSY in ALL its forms is one of THE biggest hidden causes of trouble at all levels in this sad world.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:28 AM   #622
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Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?
i think there are many possible reasons. The most obvious being that they belong to a group that has an identity that others can't be a member of
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:49 AM   #623
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i think there are many possible reasons. The most obvious being that they belong to a group that has an identity that others can't be a member of
A GREAT point BOTS and one which I did not think about. I believe that it is a prime reason.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:02 AM   #624
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Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?
...because they make the best chicken soup ..(...apparently../..allegedly etc...)...unless that recipe is shared to all non Jews as well, I have no time for them at all...selfish is what it is...
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Old 14-04-2018, 09:44 AM   #625
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I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.
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