[KissyLittleMissy2]

This investigation is getting beyond a joke. Personally I think that Madeline is indeed dead by now. Apologies to anyone who wishes to believe that she is still alive - but for anyone silly enough to have her in thier possession, is taking a risk too far. It would be better for them to end her life due to the risks of ever getting caught. That is my opinion and a sad one at that, as I would love for her to reappear alive - but never ever will.

The parents of Madeline Mcann must be going through hell. I mean, the police have questioned them so much and thier name has been on the authorities minds as murderers

[Sunny_01]

I agree it is more than liekly that Madeline is now dead, any shred of hope will have gone when the media roller coaster took over. If she had been taken by someone surely by now they will have panicked and killed the poor wee lamb.

I would love them to find this little girl now so that if she is dead she can be given a little dignity and respect and recieve a full funeral rather than being dumped.

[Sticks]

I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

I fail to see how the Portuguese police can be regarded remotely credible.

The same police that interview a suspect then allow the suspect to colude with the next suspect before the next interview.

The same police who refused to give a description of what the child was wearing untill days had past and public memories had faded.

The same police who do incomplete searches first time round..

The same police who keep reinterviewing and reinterviewing weeks apart when memories have faded and fact will inevitably become didstorted.

The same police who say they believe in secrecy about the investigation details then go on to leak convenient pieces of information for the press to feed off with their usual sensationalism and lies.

Portuguese propaganda will almost certainly destroy the possibility of a conviction sticking because of a one sided mass of police accusations which will make some people pre judge a verdict and make a fair trial impossible.

Regardless of if the Mac'Canns are guilty or not the bungling almost brain dead portuguese police have no credibility what so ever....

If you throw balls at a coconut often enough you will by chance get a hit. That sums up the credibilty of the Portuguese police...

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

I fail to see how the Portuguese police can be regarded remotely credible.

The same police that interview a suspect then allow the suspect to colude with the next suspect before the next interview.

The same police who refused to give a description of what the child was wearing untill days had past and public memories had faded.

The same police who do incomplete searches first time round..

The same police who keep reinterviewing and reinterviewing weeks apart when memories have faded and fact will inevitably become didstorted.

The same police who say they believe in secrecy about the investigation details then go on to leak convenient pieces of information for the press to feed off with their usual sensationalism and lies.

Portuguese propaganda will almost certainly destroy the possibility of a conviction sticking because of a one sided mass of police accusations which will make some people pre judge a verdict and make a fair trial impossible.

Regardless of if the Mac'Canns are guilty or not the bungling almost brain dead portuguese police have no credibility what so ever....

If you throw balls at a coconut often enough you will by chance get a hit. That sums up the credibilty of the Portuguese police...

[Sticks]

The net is closing in on the McCanns as the killers

There is no independent corroboration of any sighting of Madeline for a seven hour window.

The wheels are coming off of the McCann band wagon as their so called theories become more outlandish by the day.

I read somewhere that only 20% believe they are innocent.

The Portuguese police, in association with the best of British forensics and police dogs have the most likely scenario, that the McCanns killed their own daughter and hid the body.

[Amy21]

I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Amy21
I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

If you look at my previous post

In the UK press they are saying how they will take a lie detector test. Everyone in the intelligence and law enforcement industry knows that they can be beaten, and a pair of doctors could in theory work out how to do this.

Passing a lie detector test proves only that they can pass a lie detector test. It does not mean they were being truthful. As I mentioned above, they can be beaten and agents are trained to do so.

The quote about the lie detector is yet another smoke screen from the McCann spin machine. (Does anyone seriously find their ever changing account credible?)

[Sunny_01]

I think we are seriously running the risk here of finding the McCanns guilty without trial.

We all have our thoughts on the matter, we all have questions in our minds but need to remember that at the heart of all this a little girl is still missing.

We all know the press are not reliable sources of information, we also know that the Portugese police have bumbled through this investigation and made errors at every turn, yes the McCanns left their children, yes they dont act in a way that most parents would act, but does all of that make them guilty?

I have questioned their actions at every turn like a lot of others but now believe that we may never know the truth, I choose to hope they are not inolved in this, I have tried to stop myself from out and out accusing them, my doubts will possibly be there until otherwise disproved but I want my doubts to be wrong because the thought of accepting that the McCanns are responsible is just not a palatable thought for me.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Amy21
I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

Lie detector tests are not admissible in court.

I usually find that as reports of unsolved murders stretch on and on, the prime suspects often resort to the PR spin stactic of the lie detector test as the be and end all of the case.

It is far from that

Their story changes with the wind

[Sunny_01]

From Sky news

Madeleine: Murat 'Set To Be Cleared'
Updated: 14:21, Saturday September 22, 2007

The first person to be named an official suspect in the Madeleine McCann inquiry is to be cleared, according to reports in Portugal.
Robert Murat has always vehemently denied involvement in the four-year-old's disappearance.
The Briton's home has been searched and he has twice been questioned by police, who named him as their first "arguido" - or official suspect.

But a report in the weekly newspaper Sol reported that Murat had now been told that police have no case against him.

However, the 33-year-old is to remain an arguido until the investigation is complete to avoid compromising other ongoing inquiries, the newspaper said.

Murat - who lives with his mother in a villa less than 100 yards from the apartment from which Madeleine went missing - has not commented publicly on the speculation.

Police searched his house and garden using specialist sniffer dogs after suspicions were aroused over his interest in the case.

Murat, whose father is Portuguese, had earlier offered his services as a translator to police working on the case and became a familiar sight around the crime scene in the days after Madeleine's disappearance.

A British newspaper reporter expressed her concerns to police, who indicated that there were already interested in Murat.

After questioning the property consultant for several hours at their local headquarters in the town of Portimao, Portugal's Policia Judiciaria declared him an official suspect.

Madeleine has not been seen since she disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

Her parents Kate and Gerry have also been named formal suspects in the case.

They too have insisted they played no part in Madeleine's disappearance and have said they want the focus to return to finding their daughter.

[Sunny_01]

From sky news

Police Chief Attacks Kate And Gerry
Updated: 22:55, Friday September 21, 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann have hindered the investigation into their daughter's disappearance, says the man in charge of the Portuguese police federation.

McCanns criticisedCarlos Anjos, head of Asfic, said future interrogation of the couple was effectively pointless because they would, as is their right, refuse to speak.

And he warned the investigation into Madeleine, who was three when she was reported missing, could end up taking a "very long time".

A spokesman for the McCanns dismissed claims they were using their right to silence to withhold co-operation with police.

Mr Anjos said a "difficult and complex case" was "made worse by [the parent's] attitude".

He also said Kate and Gerry had told the portuguese police they would be making no further statements towards the investigation.

Claims that the McCanns were hampering the Portuguese police's search for Madeleine were dismissed by the appointed spokesman for the couple, Clarence Mitchell.

Mr Mitchell said: "We are not prepared to comment on Mr Anjos's remarks but Kate and Gerry have always said they are willing to return to Portugal at any time to help the police with their investigations."

Mr Anjos also said police progress remained slow.

"This case is here for a long time because there is no apparent motive and it will be very difficult to prove if it was homicide if Madeleine's body is not found," he said.

Detectives in the Algarve are reportedly working on the theory that Kate McCann may have accidentally killed Madeleine and relied on her husband, Gerry, to help cover it up.

[bananarama]

If the bungling Portuguese police were wrong about Murat they could just as easily be wrong about the Mc'Canns...Seems to me they make up theories with no facts to back them up. Just like the press really.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks

If you look at my previous post

The quote about the lie detector is yet another smoke screen from the McCann spin machine. (Does anyone seriously find their ever changing account credible?)

Does anyone ever find the ever changing account of the police credible....All the holes in their wild theories and not one hole has been filled.

As things are it's a one sided public trial. Suggestions by the police with no verifiable facts. The Mc'Canns gagged as they are not allowed to talk about their interviews with the police but the police can go on leaking as much mud as they like.

A jury in a trial considers all facts from both sides before assuming guilt or not....Should not we do the same!!!

[Sticks]

Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Sticks
Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

British forensics - excellent had they been involved from day 1 but they were brought in very late and only have the word of the Portugese police about where things were found etc..

The forensics certainly did NOT place Madelines corpse in the car, the suggested that her DNA was found in the car, now that could have been transferred from her belongings which were transported in the car. Also we only have the word of the press with information leaked from the Portugese police that Madelines body was in the car SO we are back to the question of who is more credible. Well for me the McCanns are more credible than the Portugese police who have handled this case terribly from day one.

I have always had suspicions about the McCanns and the way they behave and have behaved BUT that certainly doesnt make them guilty of killing their daughter, they are as you say suspects but not the only ones in a poorly investigated case.

[Amy21]

Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go. You just do the test and if its right its right if its wrong its wrong so really I dont see any true source about that short article about it being a smoke screen for the McCanns to get past easily. I know in my opinion they didnt kill Madeleine and that she has been taken by some sicko who is doing anything to her while her parents are suffering with no clue where she is and if she is still alive.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Amy21
Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go.

Lie detectors can be beaten - this is not exactly a secret.

Polygraphy is not a science, it is an interrogation technique, inadmissable in court, and once you know how a lie detector actually works - it is comparatively easy to "beat" one.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Amy21
Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go. You just do the test and if its right its right if its wrong its wrong so really I dont see any true source about that short article about it being a smoke screen for the McCanns to get past easily. I know in my opinion they didnt kill Madeleine and that she has been taken by some sicko who is doing anything to her while her parents are suffering with no clue where she is and if she is still alive.

Sadly Amy lie detector tests can be beaten, and it is also dependent on what questions are asked. For example if they asked "did you kill Madeline" and they had not and it had been an accident they were involved in they could say "no" and it would show them as telling the truth.

Also some people are able to be calm throughout the test which allows them to beat the test. I certainly wouldnt class someone as being innocent just because they had taken a polygraph test.

I admire your strong feelings about the McCanns and your certainty that they are innocent and agree we need to focus more on Madeline who is still missing. I wish I could be as sure as you are that they are innocent, I just cant let myself to be honest. To much of this does not add up for me, but I will say again I really want to be wrong about how I feel on this occasion.

[Amy21]

Originally posted by Sunny_01

Sadly Amy lie detector tests can be beaten, and it is also dependent on what questions are asked. For example if they asked "did you kill Madeline" and they had not and it had been an accident they were involved in they could say "no" and it would show them as telling the truth.

Also some people are able to be calm throughout the test which allows them to beat the test. I certainly wouldnt class someone as being innocent just because they had taken a polygraph test.

I admire your strong feelings about the McCanns and your certainty that they are innocent and agree we need to focus more on Madeline who is still missing. I wish I could be as sure as you are that they are innocent, I just cant let myself to be honest. To much of this does not add up for me, but I will say again I really want to be wrong about how I feel on this occasion.

This cant be true the McCanns are hardly experts on how to beat a lie detector test by messing with it or getting some phoney doctor to do something to it. I think they are genuine machines that tell the truth and cant be messed with to get it to say the right things. And I do believe that the McCanns didnt do anything to Madeleine. They were just a normal family on holiday and they got chosen at random by some sicko to take one of their kids. I dont think these parents are the type to kill a child as Kate McCann had Madeleine by IVF treatment and thats just shows how much she must of wanted kids to have Madeleine that way. It was revealed in the news she had Madeleine by IVF treatment. Doesnt that show you she really wanted kids so why would she go and kill her own child when she tried so hard to have kids through IVF treatment. People need to open their eyes and see the real truth.

[geoking66]

Amy21, all lie machines are about 85% effective. I've actually beaten one, it isn't too hard.

[Sunny_01]

Amy seriously look it up, they are not that accurate, in fact many countries will not accept them in court as they are so unpredictable. All they do is check a persons blood pressure etc.. in response to certain questions, someone who is a real cool cucumber (DR) could well fool this type of machine.

Yes they went to the trouble of having IVF to have children as they had a genuine desire to have children, but that does not mean that something did not happen to Madeline while in their care.

We are all being realistic here, there is as much circumstantial evidence to say they may have been involved as there is to say they may not have been, we all have different opinions on what could and could not have happened. I would never rule someone out just because of who they are, what they do, how they appear to behave.

[spacebandit]

The simplistic methodology used in polygraph testing has no grounding in the scientific method: it is no more scientific than astrology or tarot cards. Government agencies value it because people who don't realize it's a fraud sometimes make damaging admissions. But as a result of reliance on this voodoo science, the truthful are often falsely branded as liars while the deceptive pass through.

Perversely, the "test" is inherently biased against the truthful, because the more honestly one answers the "control" questions, and as a consequence feels less stress when answering them, the more likely one is to fail. Conversely, liars can beat the test by covertly augmenting their physiological reactions to the "control" questions. This can be done, for example, by doing mental arithmetic, thinking exciting thoughts, altering one's breathing pattern, or simply biting the side of the tongue. Truthful persons can also use these techniques to protect themselves against the risk of a false positive outcome. Although polygraphers frequently claim they can detect such countermeasures, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to do so, and peer-reviewed research suggests that they can't.

http://www.antipolygraph.org/index.shtml

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.p...e_detector.php

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

British police have only played a small part in the overall investigation. The British police have to rely on the integrity of the evidence found by those portuguese idiots.

Not even the portuguese police have claimed what you suggest regarding the body in a car.....All they have said that there is DNA which may be a match or close match. That's a long way from saying for sure a body has been placed in the car. Other close relatives have used that car.....

Sticks I really hope you have not or ever get the chance to do jury service. Such a prospect is really scary...

[Sticks]

It looks like the Portuguese DA knows they did it, hence the warning to the police that they need to find the body or the McCanns will escape justice.

source

He has 10 boxes of evidence so there must be something in it, just not quite enough for a conviction.

Reminds me of the Scottish verdict of "Not Proven" where it means, we think you did it, but they did not quite prove it.