[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

and of course your post about straight men not understanding female issues is a glowing testament to education

I didn’t say that? I said gay men SEEM to understand MORE THAN straight men

Maybe you should try reading my posts before twisting them as trying to put words in my mouth

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No a gay man wont get a woman pregnant by accident unless he is in the closet but we are not talking about that are we?

Eh? You said no openly gay man has ever had a child with a woman. Who said anything about it being an accident?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Gay men seem to understand a woman’s body is her own to make descisions with a lot more than straight men

So you are saying a man should have no say over his child?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Thanks for that insight Adam

Well it is a lot of people get abortions because of drunken 1 night stands or accidents.

I believe Abortions should only be for medical reasons or if the child is servilely disabled and will have no quality of life

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So you are saying a man should have no say over his child?

We’re not talking about a child, we’re talking about cells that aren’t a human

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Well it is a lot of people get abortions because of drunken 1 night stands or accidents.

I believe Abortions should only be for medical reasons or if the child is servilely disabled and will have no quality of life

that doesn't affect the fundamental right to have an abortion though. That is an issue of irresponsible behaviour which is an entirely different thing.

[Cherie]

Youtube video

This looks more than a cluster of cells to me

[Denver]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

that doesn't affect the fundamental right to have an abortion though. That is an issue of irresponsible behaviour which is an entirely different thing.

They should allow the father to decide

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So you are saying a man should have no say over his child?

Until it's born and he can actually do anything to help, no.

They can have an opinion but at the end of the day, it's not them carrying the baby. The say of what happens is ultimately down to the mother, it's her body, her choice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Adam.

So you are saying a man should have no say over his child?

His say cannot override that of the woman’s as it is not his body. It isn’t’ complicated. If there is no compromise that both are agreed on then she has to have the final say.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It would be interesting to see a case where a gay couples surrogate aborted their baby at 12 weeks because she decided she couldn’t go through with it

You have a very bizarre definition of interesting.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

His say cannot override that of the woman’s as it is not his body. It isn’t’ complicated. If there is no compromise that both are agreed on then she has to have the final say.

that's very clinical approach though that takes no account of the partners feelings , and if a woman in a committed stable relationship takes the decision based purely on her own feelings many relationship will not survive that so she might have to be prepared to lose baby and partner

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I believe Abortions should only be for medical reasons or if the child is servilely disabled and will have no quality of life

This is kind of an example of what I said earlier in the thread about how people against abortion seem to care more about restricting the choice than what comes after the pregnancy.

Some people aren't fit to be parents or they aren't currently in the right place to be parents, why force them into having children when they aren't ready? Why force them through that process just so the kid can be raised in a struggling or unhealthy environment or raised within the system if the parents give them up?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Rob!

You have a very bizarre definition of interesting.

I like to look at things from all angles, it is easy to make judgements when you are not part of the equation.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

that's very clinical approach though that takes no account of the partners feelings , and if a woman in a committed stable relationships takes the decision based purely on her own feelings many relationship will not survive that so she might have to be prepared to lose baby and partner

And that will be her choice to make. If two people in a relationship have different thoughts on children then that relationship is doomed unless one person is willing to give up what they want for the other person and then you have an issue of resentment between the parents and potentially towards the child if the mother never wanted a baby in the first place.

Letting the mother have the final say is way less messy.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Some people aren't fit to be parents or they aren't currently in the right place to be parents, why force them into having children when they aren't ready? Why force them through that process just so the kid can be raised in a struggling or unhealthy environment or raised within the system if the parents give them up?

That's why it's lucky that adoption is a thing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

that's very clinical approach though that takes no account of the partners feelings , and if a woman in a committed stable relationship takes the decision based purely on her own feelings many relationship will not survive that so she might have to be prepared to lose baby and partner

How can she not though? No-one has the right to force her to have a baby she doesn’t want and it would be a big step backwards for women’s rights. It’s one of those sad situations where there this no workable compromise without enforcing a man’s rights over a woman’s rights over her body.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's why it's lucky that adoption is a thing.

Why should a woman who didn't want to be pregnant in the first place be forced to go through 9 months of trials and tribulations just to give a baby up into the system?

Again, another example of people caring more about forcing the pregnancy to full term than the child that follows it.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's why it's lucky that adoption is a thing.

Giving birth is not only traumatic and very painful - there is always a risk attached, however minimal. Who then takes responsibility if a woman dies after being forced to give birth - that would be murder in my opinion - and is just one element of this.

Her rights over her own body do and should have priority over the feelings/opinions of a man who does not approve of abortion.

[Underscore]

Ireland has done right by its women.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This is kind of an example of what I said earlier in the thread about how people against abortion seem to care more about restricting the choice than what comes after the pregnancy.

Some people aren't fit to be parents or they aren't currently in the right place to be parents, why force them into having children when they aren't ready? Why force them through that process just so the kid can be raised in a struggling or unhealthy environment or raised within the system if the parents give them up?

If she doesn't want a child she should take protective precautions

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

How can she not though? No-one has the right to force her to have a baby she doesn’t want and it would be a big step backwards for women’s rights. It’s one of those sad situations where there this no workable compromise without enforcing a man’s rights over a woman’s rights over her body.

its not forcing, its taking someone that you love into account and not ignoring their feelings, so it should be a compromise, not my body my choice sod you, as a mother of two sons that is quite a worrying prospect

[Cherie]

Ireland have voted 2:1 to over turn the current legislation

Right decision, but lets not go down the UK route where it is used as contraception

[Denver]

If women are not willing to take the mans feeling into account then they shouldn't be crying for money from a man to pay for a child he doesn't want

Works both ways

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Adam.

If women are not willing to take the mans feeling into account then they shouldn't be crying for money from a man to pay for a child he doesn't want

Works both ways

Then he should put a cover on it shouldn’t he. If he doesn’t want a child, protect himself, or stop whining.