[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Yes he was creepy. The things he said, how detached he seemed but I don't want to judge him on that alone otherwise I would be like those people at the time supposedly 'witch hunting' the three because they were different.

However, he had mental health issues. There is something called exhibit 500 which has documents about his mental health. Some of the things on there are pretty creepy. But the way Damien explains his demeanour now, about then, is that he had faith in the justice system and that there was no way they would have been found guilty if they didn't do anything. He did have grandieuse complex then. His west memphis boogeyman comment is creepy but if he really was guilty he wouldn't have said that while professing his innocence at the same time.

Jason and Damien seemed pretty sure of themselves at the beginning, like you said when they were laughing at the cops coming to their house, but as the trial went on you can tell it was starting to sink in that they might actually go down for this. Especially Jason, he was so drained. Did you see the way he shook his head when that guy lied under oath that Jason had confessed to him? He was lying. He had heard tales from other sources.


Jessy's confessions-He's saying he was coerced. They spend a longer time talking before they actually started recording so knowing how cops work, maybe he was telling them something else, they weren't happy but only began recording when he told them what they wanted to hear.

Have you looked into Terry Hobbs? They found his DNA on a shoelace tied on the boys.

A little boy called Aaron said he saw 5 men in the woods. 4 having sex, 1 black man (possibly Mr Bojangles) and that the other three boys stumbled on them that's why they were killed. Years later, not too long ago a convicted rapist said one of the men confessed that there was a sex ring in the woods and they killed the boys. He managed to escape.

The necklace they supposedly claim is Damien's looks different than what Damien actually wore.


I was wondering what happened to Damien's son. Apparently the mother and son moved away because she didn't want to be in the spotlight or expose her son to this. She remarried and has girls. Some say Damien still sees his son some say he doesn't. The mother always said if she thought he was the tiny bit guilty he would never see his son again.


Matching tattoos with Johnny Depp. The other day Dave Navaro tweeted him




''Damien Echols fooled you all'' but the comments are more interesting.
http://trenchreynolds.com/2011/08/22...ooled-you-all/

The thing about Aarons statement though is if that 5 men/sex ring thing is true he would have known that Terry was Stevies step dad and would have been able to tell them that, wouldn't he? Aaron isn't a very reliable witness I think, I reckon that whole thing was made up. I doubt those men would have allowed him to get away and then go on to murder the remaining boys with a witness on the loose

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The thing about Aarons statement though is if that 5 men/sex ring thing is true he would have known that Terry was Stevies step dad and would have been able to tell them that, wouldn't he? Aaron isn't a very reliable witness I think, I reckon that whole thing was made up. I doubt those men would have allowed him to get away and then go on to murder the remaining boys with a witness on the loose

As of 2013 he said he fabricated the WM3 testimony. We don't know if he would know Terry but he did implicate Byers in his first statement. He implicated WM3after watching tv.

[Pete.]

Louis Walsh

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

As of 2013 he said he fabricated the WM3 testimony. We don't know if he would know Terry but he did implicate Byers in his first statement. He implicated WM3after watching tv.

Byers? Really? Still though I doubt he saw anything at all that day

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Byers? Really? Still though I doubt he saw anything at all that day

You'll find this interesting
http://m.arktimes.com/arkansas/they-...ent?oid=964537

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

This is both heartbreaking and creepy. Heartbreaking because the lad is clearly distraught-a lot different than how he was when he went in. This is around the time he claims he was being raped

Youtube video

[Ammi]

..I've watched all three Paradise lost now...yeah CeeCee, I know what you mean about (Damien especially) being judged by some because he had black hair/wore black clothes and had tattoos etc because that's stereotyping someone who has individuality but it's more how cold he appears to me and how detached, almost like he's a 'hollow'/emotionless person...and with Aaron..?..I'm just really not convinced with his disclosures, especially as he mentions 'Mr Bojangles' as well/a 'black man' being one of the five men he saw...because it feels more like with small town gossip etc and things that he must have heard discussed, that he more likely had lots of information being absorbed/maybe dreams about the killings even..?..and more in his imagination...he could have believed that he actually saw something but in reality didn't...I mean it was all so gruesome that it seems quite feasible that there were many 'scary thoughts' with other children at the time but him believing his were 'real' as an experience...


...Niamh, I actually that that I had missed a bit because of Terry Hobbs and his sudden turnaround in support for them, that's really so unbelievably odd...


...the necklace, CeeCee...that's pretty damning for Damien...anyways, my feelings are still that they're guilty...I know it said that they would have probably been acquitted with a retrial, using expressions like probably and most likely but the 'new' evidence had been dismissed so I can't really see that either...how weird a plea though with the North Carolina V Afford ruling/I'm innocent but will plead guilty...that feels so bizarre to me...that, that exists....Damien had drunk someone's blood which is another creepy thing...and also tattood/or cut rather, his girlfriends name into his arm so he hade 'knife control skills'..?...which was mentioned in the trial by the expert witness, he's also apparently said that he would slit his mum's throat on a previous occasion...I know it's reported that Terry Hobbs had a temper and would be physical with Steve and also his mum...?..but this doesn't seem to me to be a temper/rage killing...again going back to the expert witness in the trial, it had 'precision' so more a very 'cold' killing...and to me, that isn't Terry Hobb's character...(he may be a grim human being I know but...)...and this is what my thoughts keep going back to..that cold and emotionless doesn't really fit with the character of any of the parents but I have felt it with Damien and possibly Jason as well...less so with Jessie but he was the only one who admitted guilt for his part and he maintained that all of the way through and also after sentencing...he 'went along with' more than had the same intent as the other two because he was quite vulnerable..?...


..anyways I haven't read any of the sites that both of you have...I started to watch Devil's Knot the movie though...just to get a feel of where my thoughts would lead on guilt/innocence if I hadn't known any of the case/if the movie was all I had seen...the real life and the scenes in the movie are really well done and accurate but I was getting tired so I've only seen the first 45 minutes or so, I'll try to finish it today...one of the things on the movie though that I hadn't noticed in the actual footage of Damien going into the courtroom..was that he blew a kiss at a young lady that was shouting outside of the courtroom/in the crowd of many people shouting how evil he was....again, if that actually happened, it's that 'cold emotionless thing' and a lack of it all effecting him other than the 'fame' he was getting, which he had seemed happy with...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

This is both heartbreaking and creepy. Heartbreaking because the lad is clearly distraught-a lot different than how he was when he went in. This is around the time he claims he was being raped

Youtube video

....hmmm, he mentions the drinking blood there and says he licked rather than drunk...

[Jay28jay2]

-Someone leaving doors open in an occupied room
-Being able to hear people talk in the other room/too loud

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmm, he mentions the drinking blood there and says he licked rather than drunk...

The necklace might not have been his. It's still up for discussion. A bit suspect this evidence was found afterwards
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...-a-Smoking-Gun

Being chilling is still not enough evidence for me. There was no DNA from the boys anywhere. Terry was the last one seen with the boys and he also had a shaky alibi, plus his DNA and people confessions. Some of his family members and his ex wife want probing. I wish it was possible to look further into Terry and Byers. There's way too much circumstantial evidence on Byers. He was high on medicine during his polygraph so it might've affected his results.

Yes I mentioned earlier that Aaron pointed the finger at WM3 after watching tv but before all that he indicated Byers. In a later interview he said he might have fabricated some of it.

Youtube video

[Ammi]

..I'll look at that link in a bit CeeCee..thank you.....I have to say with Devil's Knot/the movie...(but having seen the court cases beforehand/I usually do these things the other way round with a movie sparking my thoughts....)...I am starting to have a bit of a turnaround over their guilt...the 'occult expert witness' in court didn't even have a PHD or any kind of qualification at all really...he had just done a correspondence course and completed a few questionnaires and even though this was pointed out to the judge by the defence...he overruled and allowed his testimony to stay against Damien...

[Ammi]

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

Those names don't ring a bell with me......I thought I'd read everything about the case at this stage I'm going to read up on that

So I watched West of Memphis last night. Ugh I know Damien was involved in the making of this one so I had that firmly in my mind while watching it...i have to say though it still swayed me a bit, out of all the PLs and devils Knot, this one really made me think they didn't do it. Also Eddie Vedder was in this one so that was a bonus

Ammi & CeeCee if you haven't watched that one yet, do it.

They put forward the argument that alot of the injuries to the boys may have happened after they died and were in the water, including the emasculation of Chris Byers (I really hope that they're right too, poor child ) They showed examples of what Turtle bites and clawing looked like and they were almost identical to the marks on the boys and apparently that area was full of turtles

I was finally a bit swayed on the possibility of it being Terry as well although Pam still seems like a really unreliable source to me

I felt so sorry for her and Terrys daughter, I feel like she may have suffered the most because of the murders

A couple of things that weren't clear to me though, was it only Jesse's statement that made people think the boys had been raped or was there evidence of this? (I'm really hoping that didn't happen to them either)

And also, the whole blue candle wax on one of the boys clothes, that doesn't seem to ever be mentioned much but it's always one thing I keep coming back to

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

The necklace might not have been his. It's still up for discussion. A bit suspect this evidence was found afterwards
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yu...-a-Smoking-Gun

Being chilling is still not enough evidence for me. There was no DNA from the boys anywhere. Terry was the last one seen with the boys and he also had a shaky alibi, plus his DNA and people confessions. Some of his family members and his ex wife want probing. I wish it was possible to look further into Terry and Byers. There's way too much circumstantial evidence on Byers. He was high on medicine during his polygraph so it might've affected his results.

Yes I mentioned earlier that Aaron pointed the finger at WM3 after watching tv but before all that he indicated Byers. In a later interview he said he might have fabricated some of it.

Youtube video

Do we know for sure whether Jesse passed or failed his polygraph? I've read conflicting stories on that, one says he passed but the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed and on other sites I read that he actually failed it. Also, did Damien and Jason ever take Polygraphs? On West of Memphis they say that Terry refused to do one which is suspicious I think

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Those names don't ring a bell with me......I thought I'd read everything about the case at this stage I'm going to read up on that

So I watched West of Memphis last night. Ugh I know Damien was involved in the making of this one so I had that firmly in my mind while watching it...i have to say though it still swayed me a bit, out of all the PLs and devils Knot, this one really made me think they didn't do it. Also Eddie Vedder was in this one so that was a bonus

Ammi & CeeCee if you haven't watched that one yet, do it.

They put forward the argument that alot of the injuries to the boys may have happened after they died and were in the water, including the emasculation of Chris Byers (I really hope that they're right too, poor child ) They showed examples of what Turtle bites and clawing looked like and they were almost identical to the marks on the boys and apparently that area was full of turtles

I was finally a bit swayed on the possibility of it being Terry as well although Pam still seems like a really unreliable source to me

I felt so sorry for her and Terrys daughter, I feel like she may have suffered the most because of the murders

A couple of things that weren't clear to me though, was it only Jesse's statement that made people think the boys had been raped or was there evidence of this? (I'm really hoping that didn't happen to them either)

And also, the whole blue candle wax on one of the boys clothes, that doesn't seem to ever be mentioned much but it's always one thing I keep coming back to

....hmmmm chores and ironing or West of Memphis today, I'll have to give it some thought....I'll report back my findings on West of Memphis later...x....


....with Chris Morgan and Brian Holland..?..I can't recall which site because like you two ladies, I've read quite a bit now.....but there is a huge court transcript conversation discussing Chris Morgan as a witness for the defence/which led me to wiki who he was...and he was an ice-cream van guy, who knew the boys and was often the area...the defence of him being allowed to testify is that he did actually (apparently) say that he may have killed them but wasn't sure because of his drug use and suffering blackouts and memory losses...so they polygraphed and the findings were that they felt he wasn't being truthful when asked direct questions about the killings...he and Brian Holland..(who I haven't had the chance to specifically google yet..)...both left 4 days after the murders to live in California...what a random thing to more or less, confess that he might have something to do with killing them though.../these townsfolk are so odd....


...one thing with this case for me though is that it's such a great example of the death penalty just never being a thing ever...it's so long to be carried out anyway to allow for possible new evidence to come to light... so then would seem pointless because rehabilitation in that time is so possible also...it's an easy kneejerk with heinous crimes such as this, I understand that...but it's just always wrong for me....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do we know for sure whether Jesse passed or failed his polygraph? I've read conflicting stories on that, one says he passed but the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed and on other sites I read that he actually failed it. Also, did Damien and Jason ever take Polygraphs? On West of Memphis they say that Terry refused to do one which is suspicious I think

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

[Ammi]

.....eeeek don't hate me CeeCee but I still think that Damien seems like quite a dark person in his thoughts../I wwas looking at some of his artwork yesterday and it has a very dark feel to it....(disclaimer CeeCee.: that doesn't equal killer though/just a little side comment...)...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

and what was the result?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmmm chores and ironing or West of Memphis today, I'll have to give it some thought....I'll report back my findings on West of Memphis later...x....


....with Chris Morgan and Brian Holland..?..I can't recall which site because like you two ladies, I've read quite a bit now.....but there is a huge court transcript conversation discussing Chris Morgan as a witness for the defence/which led me to wiki who he was...and he was an ice-cream van guy, who knew the boys and was often the area...the defence of him being allowed to testify is that he did actually (apparently) say that he may have killed them but wasn't sure because of his drug use and suffering blackouts and memory losses...so they polygraphed and the findings were that they felt he wasn't being truthful when asked direct questions about the killings...he and Brian Holland..(who I haven't had the chance to specifically google yet..)...both left 4 days after the murders to live in California...what a random thing to more or less, confess that he might have something to do with killing them though.../these townsfolk are so odd....


...one thing with this case for me though is that it's such a great example of the death penalty just never being a thing ever...it's so long to be carried out anyway to allow for possible new evidence to come to light... so then would seem pointless because rehabilitation in that time is so possible also...it's an easy kneejerk with heinous crimes such as this, I understand that...but it's just always wrong for me....

Oh yeah the ice Cream van guy. Was he the one who had asked Pam for a photo of Stevie? Who was that actually and again going back to the weirdness of these people, imagine some guy asks for a photo of your 8 year old son and you give it to him? How odd

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

and what was the result?

...I think that they thought he was lying when he said that he had no part in ...but it did brush over it like it was such an unimportant/trivial bit ...they really had no evidence at all hen you think about it...Aaron and Jessy being completely unreliable witnesses and no DNA or anything else...(and yes, what you said...I hope that much of it was done after the children were dead.....)...


...oh actually did we cover the pen knife that Pam Hobbs found after she started to suspect Terry as a possibility..?...that had been given to Stevie by his granddad and that he always had with him..she was certain that he would have had it that day and she found it in the attack in a toolbox thing that Terry had, so how did he have it....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh yeah the ice Cream van guy. Was he the one who had asked Pam for a photo of Stevie? Who was that actually and again going back to the weirdness of these people, imagine some guy asks for a photo of your 8 year old son and you give it to him? How odd

..yeah, just handing over a photo of your child is so weird and the thing is that she felt it was a weird request but still did it..?...I don't think it was him because I hadn't heard him mentioned until I saw the court transcript conversation when the judge wouldn't allow him testify...(I can't actually recall who it was now though, who asked for the photo/my brain is overloaded...)...

[Niamh.]

scroll down the page in this link and there's a list of everyone polygraphed and the results

http://www.jivepuppi.com/polygraph.html

[Ammi]

...anyways, going to do some chores now and then try to watch West of Memphis..x...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

scroll down the page in this link and there's a list of everyone polygraphed and the results

http://www.jivepuppi.com/polygraph.html

...oh that was the phrase 'deception indicated'...and no mention of Chris Morgan having taken one but I read that he did/I'll try to find that again...nice to see how the police add their bits and personal opinions on their report ...with Jessie, 'lying his ass off'...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...oh that was the phrase 'deception indicated'...and no mention of Chris Morgan having taken one but I read that he did/I'll try to find that again...nice to see how the police add their bits and personal opinions on their report ...with Jessie, 'lying his ass off'...

I don't see Jason on that list either