[Liam-]

Originally Posted by arista

When set 8 kids take a class photo

[arista]

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wish people ignored jpegs on facebook and twitter and listened to actual debates by the people involved on the radio - they go into far more detail, explore points fully and get much needed voter interaction from all sides.

I think a real problem with the "remain" side is that they tend to get a lot of info from social media sound-bites that are often proven to be fake news?

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wish people ignored jpegs on facebook and twitter and listened to actual debates by the people involved on the radio - they go into far more detail, explore points fully and get much needed voter interaction from all sides.

I think a real problem with the "remain" side is that they tend to get a lot of info from social media sound-bites that are often proven to be fake news?

i think a big problem with the leave side is the fake social media accounts, the disinformation and the funding corruption

[Livia]

I heard so many remainers say that the EU elections will be a kind of second referendum, allowing people to demonstrate with their vote that they want to remain.

How wrong they all were. Again.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

I heard so many remainers say that the EU elections will be a kind of second referendum, allowing people to demonstrate with their vote that they want to remain.

How wrong they all were. Again.

So the figures were:
Brexit Party 29
Lib Dems 15
Labour 10
Green 7
Conservatives 3
SNP 3
Plaid Cymru 1
Change UK 0


Breaking this down into pro- and anti- Brexit

Pro
Brexit Party 29
Labour 10*
Conservatives 3*
Total = 42

Anti
Lib Dems 15
Green 7
SNP 3
Plaid Cymru 1
Change UK 0
Total = 26

*According to their manifestos only.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

So the figures were:

Brexit Party 29

Lib Dems 15

Labour 10

Green 7

Conservatives 3

SNP 3

Plaid Cymru 1

Change UK 0





Breaking this down into pro- and anti- Brexit



Pro

Brexit Party 29

Labour 10*

Conservatives 3*

Total = 42



Anti

Lib Dems 15

Green 7

SNP 3

Plaid Cymru 1

Change UK 0

Total = 26



*According to their manifestos only.

Going by their manifesto pledges is nonsense though, assuming that Conservative and especially Labour voters are pro Brexit is just nonsense. There's no way around that. Doing otherwise can only ever be a deliberate attempt to manipulate the figures.

Again, the EU elections showed only very basic things:

1) Still pretty much a 50/50 stalemate on Brexit in general.

2) Nowhere near a majority on wanting no-deal Brexit.

3) People are very unhappy with Conservative and Labour.


All of these attempts to "illustrate" anything other than that, by either side, by doing gymnastics with the figures is just propaganda.

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Livia

I heard so many remainers say that the EU elections will be a kind of second referendum, allowing people to demonstrate with their vote that they want to remain.

How wrong they all were. Again.

But like, they weren’t wrong?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Elliot

But like, they weren’t wrong?

If you, like, take a look at Oliver's post above, it will explain it for you clearly. How pro-Brexit = 42 seats and how anti-Brexit = 24 seats.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wish people ignored jpegs on facebook and twitter and listened to actual debates by the people involved on the radio - they go into far more detail, explore points fully and get much needed voter interaction from all sides.

I think a real problem with the "remain" side is that they tend to get a lot of info from social media sound-bites that are often proven to be fake news?

Ehh. Pictures can say a thousand words, on principal I have no problem with boiling an argument down to a "meme", if the message is carried effectively and more importantly - if a link to the substantial argument it's based on is provided in the description.

And let's not pretend either side is immune to fake news.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the worst thing about the vote is 73% could not be bothered to vote

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the worst thing about the vote is 73% could not be bothered to vote

you need to double check your working there young master Trumpet...

(Its 63%)

But yes even then its still pretty sire that 2/3 of the adult population didn't even vote. Also, given that the turnout for the referendum (and any second referendum) or a General Election would definitely be MUCH higher... Using the EU results to assume *anything at all* is pretty sketchy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

you need to double check your working there young master Trumpet...

(Its 63%)

But yes even then its still pretty sire that 2/3 of the adult population didn't even vote. Also, given that the turnout for the referendum (and any second referendum) or a General Election would definitely be MUCH higher... Using the EU results to assume *anything at all* is pretty sketchy.

yes 63 i mean

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the worst thing about the vote is 73% could not be bothered to vote

It's all pointless really, I don't blame people for feeling disenfranchised when a party stormed the election who didn't even detail their polices and plans. How can you hold a party you voted for accountable if they haven't made any promises? Ignorance is winning. Just say 'brexit' and you'll get a bunch of people who can't think for themselves clapping you on like a bunch of performing seals.

Give the ignorant masses what they want, and, to borrow a quote from GOT, let their joy turn to ashes in their mouths when they have to deal with the reality of what they've demanded. They want to bleed, let them bleed.

[Livia]

This is the only place I have ever experienced where some people actively want to watch others suffer, are looking forward to watching gleefully as others' lives worsen, all because they have a different opinion from them. And this is the same side that think others can't deal with the process of thinking logically and clearly, who are themselves tingling with the anticipation of a disaster just so they can say "I told you so".

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

This is the only place I have ever experienced where some people actively want to watch others suffer, are looking forward to watching gleefully as others' lives worsen, all because they have a different opinion from them. And this is the same side that think others can't deal with the process of thinking logically and clearly, who are themselves tingling with the anticipation of a disaster just so they can say "I told you so".

Is it not more the hope that if people see these things go wrong, they will learn from the mistake and make better choices in future?

Although personally, I think that's an unrealistic dream. People don't change their political stance based on anything like that; they find something else to blame (or are given something else to blame) and continue on feeling as "right" as ever. That applies on all sides. There IS no "hah, see, you were WRONG" when it comes to these things because people can find any number of "reasons" that things aren't as they want it.

Someone is a remainer;

- Brexit is cancelled, things are good in 5 years time? Proof that remaining was right! Things are bad? It's because Britain's image was irreparably damaged by Brexit and it was too late!

- Brexit goes ahead, things are bad in 5 years time? Proof that Brexit was a disaster, it would all be fine had we stayed! Things are going fine and all of the predictions of doom came to nothing? Coincidence, there was an economic upturn for other reasons and we're lucky there was.

Someone is a Brexiteer;

- Brexit goes ahead, things are good. See we were right, Brexit has lead us to a better future! Things are bad? Well, there's still half the country who didn't want Brexit and are sabotaging everything with division, it would be working fine if everyone was united.

- Brexit is cancelled, and now things are economically bad in the UK: DAMN YOU REMAINERS! If you hadn't wrecked Brexit we could have avoided this! Brexit is cancelled and we're thriving within the EU? Well look here guys, the global economy is booming right now and if we weren't tied down by Europe we could have capitalised on that fully.





...basically a very long winded way of showing that no one will ever have to "deal with the reality of their choices". People find evidence that "they were right" no matter what happens, and anything that goes wrong, is because someone else messed up a good thing. So unfortunately Dezzy... if we exit the EU and it's a complete disaster, I absolutely guarantee that no one who voted for Brexit will find themselves suddenly realising that they screwed themselves. It will be the fault of those who made Brexit difficult, or the fault of incompetent politicians signing the wrong deals. Brexit will still have been "definitely the right choice". No one gets to say "told you so".

That's sad, huh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

This is the only place I have ever experienced where some people actively want to watch others suffer, are looking forward to watching gleefully as others' lives worsen, all because they have a different opinion from them. And this is the same side that think others can't deal with the process of thinking logically and clearly, who are themselves tingling with the anticipation of a disaster just so they can say "I told you so".

+1

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

This is the only place I have ever experienced where some people actively want to watch others suffer, are looking forward to watching gleefully as others' lives worsen, all because they have a different opinion from them. And this is the same side that think others can't deal with the process of thinking logically and clearly, who are themselves tingling with the anticipation of a disaster just so they can say "I told you so".

I see you're still reading my posts although you pretend I'm on ignore. Not quoting me isn't going to do much to act like you aren't clicking on every post I make just to make sure I'm not responding to you.

Stop clutching your pearls in faux outrage and looking down on people because it's utterly hypocritical, I'm fairly certain it would not be difficult for me to pull up posts in which you wish harm on people because you think you're morally correct to do so. I'm not wishing harm on anyone, I just want people to learn that actions have consequences. If people are dumb with their voting then they invite disaster and trying to prevent Brexiters from invoking disaster is becoming increasingly like trying to stop someone trying to put their hand into boiling water.

You combat ignorance through learning and if the only way to teach these people anything is to give them what they want and watch them learn all too late that what they want isn't what they'll get. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, after all.

Give brexiters everything they want, let them bask in Gove's advice of ignoring experts that tell them what they don't want to hear, give them their every whim and see if the reality of it matches the delusion they've been peddling for years. I don't know why you're so mad at me for, I want you to have everything you desire.

[bots]

i blame parliament entirely for the belligerence that has now set in on both sides. If they had just got on and done what they were tasked to do by the ref result, there would be none of the animosity we are now seeing

[Livia]

Maybe some people decided not to vote because, why bother? A democratic vote means hardly anything to a big section of people in this country.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Maybe some people decided not to vote because, why bother? A democratic vote means hardly anything to a big section of people in this country.

Of course there are obvious reasons for the apathy and obvious reasons for it being worse than ever (over the last year Parliament has looked nothing short of incompetent)... I personally don't blame anyone for just not wanting to think about it at all, its starting to feel like a waste of time and energy, but isn't that indicative of a pretty huge political crisis?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course there are obvious reasons for the apathy and obvious reasons for it being worse than ever (over the last year Parliament has looked nothing short of incompetent)... I personally don't blame anyone for just not wanting to think about it at all, its starting to feel like a waste of time and energy, but isn't that indicative of a pretty huge political crisis?

We needed another indicator of a crisis like we need another hole in the head.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Livia

Maybe some people decided not to vote because, why bother? A democratic vote means hardly anything to a big section of people in this country.

Ive been surrounded by old people and young people for 4 days now...almost all didn't vote for that reason.

They were mostly snp supporters and Scottish conservative..I would say I've spoken to about 40 to 50 different people who have all said the exact words you just printed....WHY BOTHER.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ive been surrounded by old people and young people for 4 days now..

What are you up to Parmy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What are you up to Parmy

I thought it best not to ask... you know Parmy...