[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I am aware of different degrees of right and left thanks which is why I pass comments when you blame the right wing for everything Trump says or does.. If you recognise the extreme elements as you claim then call them what they are extreme right instead of trying to tar everyone right of centre with the same brush.

You go on about good families crossing the borders illegally - are you there, do you know these people or are you simply listening to what’s reported from certain sources. You see those type of allegations apply to all. But the reality is I’m not there and neither are you so neither of us can vouch for them.

I support what’s right for the children - whatever that is. But adult detention centres can’t be the best place for them either. Has anyone been charged with all the ‘abuse’ you keep screaming about or is this more of the usual hysteria to make a political point - not only from you but from the rest of the far left, including journalists.

Where have I blamed the right for everything Trump does? I don't see it in this thread so point it out to me. You're the one that paints in broad brush strokes.

Ah, so now you're saying I'm listening to preferred sources, go back a few pages and see that I linked to a DAILY MAIL article which highlighted the child abuse going on. When even the Daily Mail opposes a method of Immigration control, you know it's ****ed.

I can vouch for common sense, if you think thousands of gang members are being smuggled in through children to such an extent it warrants the mass ripping apart of families then I don' know what to say. It's all just an excuse for Trump to hold children hostage so he can put pressure to get his wall.

As for your last paragraphs, if you actually researched the topic for five minutes you would understand what I mean by child abuse. It's not some indivudual that can be charged, the system ITSELF as it stands is child abuse. Honestly, you should look into it, you might actually understand what we're debating then.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes let's go back to wailing about a wall

How Nice

[arista]

Current Time magazine cover Their Remix Photo

[Alf]

Originally Posted by arista

Current Time magazine cover Their Remix Photo

What a load of old Goebbels.

[Northern Monkey]

Youtube video

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Where have I blamed the right for everything Trump does? I don't see it in this thread so point it out to me. You're the one that paints in broad brush strokes.

Ah, so now you're saying I'm listening to preferred sources, go back a few pages and see that I linked to a DAILY MAIL article which highlighted the child abuse going on. When even the Daily Mail opposes a method of Immigration control, you know it's ****ed.

I can vouch for common sense, if you think thousands of gang members are being smuggled in through children to such an extent it warrants the mass ripping apart of families then I don' know what to say. It's all just an excuse for Trump to hold children hostage so he can put pressure to get his wall.

As for your last paragraphs, if you actually researched the topic for five minutes you would understand what I mean by child abuse. It's not some indivudual that can be charged, the system ITSELF as it stands is child abuse. Honestly, you should look into it, you might actually understand what we're debating then.

And that was what I was getting at - were you trying to say individual staff at the centre were abusing the children which would have been truly shocking - or saying the act of removing them from their parents was in itself child abuse. I think your use of the word is typical and don’t think it is as clear-cut as that.

Separating very young children from their parents is hard but they would be cared for well and they may be better than the adult centres. It may well be a safety issue to protect the children. We don’t know the exact reasons but you of course will very willingly believe anything Trump is responsible for is the worst of the worst. How long are they separated for? Are the parents allowed to see them on a daily basis - when you get to the nitty gritty of these things they are rarely as bad as those with an agenda are trying to make out.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And that was what I was getting at - were you trying to say individual staff at the centre were abusing the children which would have been truly shocking - or saying the act of removing them from their parents was in itself child abuse. I think your use of the word is typical and don’t think it is as clear-cut as that.

Separating very young children from their parents is hard but they would be cared for well and they may be better than the adult centres. It may well be a safety issue to protect the children. We don’t know the exact reasons but you of course will very willingly believe anything Trump is responsible for is the worst of the worst. How long are they separated for? Are the parents allowed to see them on a daily basis - when you get to the nitty gritty of these things they are rarely as bad as those with an agenda are trying to make out.

You're acting like there isn't a wealth of information out there about these 'Tender age' centres and what goes on in them and I suppose there isn't...if you choose to ignore them.

You're just downplaying it but what is happening here is systematic mental abuse of children and nearly everyone from all sides have called it such.

Trump's administration IS responsible for this. The separating of children from their parents began when Jeff Sessions introduced his Zero Tolerance party, before then children were only taken away from their accompanying adults if they posed a danger or were smugglers, under Obama's administration this would happen a handful of times a year at most. 2,000 incidents of this in a matter of months is not comparable nor can you pretend that we don't know why this has happened. The information is out there, just because you are choosing to ignore it doesn't make it any less true or valid. Wilful ignorance does not override reality.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're acting like there isn't a wealth of information out there about these 'Tender age' centres and what goes on in them and I suppose there isn't...if you choose to ignore them.

You're just downplaying it but what is happening here is systematic mental abuse of children and nearly everyone from all sides have called it such.

Trump's administration IS responsible for this. The separating of children from their parents began when Jeff Sessions introduced his Zero Tolerance party, before then children were only taken away from their accompanying adults if they posed a danger or were smugglers, under Obama's administration this would happen a handful of times a year at most. 2,000 incidents of this in a matter of months is not comparable nor can you pretend that we don't know why this has happened. The information is out there, just because you are choosing to ignore it doesn't make it any less true or valid. Wilful ignorance does not override reality.

I am not wilfully ignoring anything but then I am not desperately looking for dirt for a smear campaign to fit my agenda.

There is little doubt there are several groups of people out there looking to get rid of Trump and are not adverse to use anything and anyone to achieve that goal. All I am saying is that although it is not what most would want for the children maybe the separate facilities are better for them. I don’t know and am not pretending to know - but then again nor do those, however much they pretend they do - despite using the situation as a weapon against Trump. Who is worse - that is very difficult to say without more personal knowledge on it - not what is in certain papers - but what are the hard and fast facts.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Youtube video

"Children separated from their parents at the border are treated humanely"

...? What? Separating children from their parents at the border is inhumane in itself. The statement is a paradox. They probably believe that because the kids aren't being beaten or starved, that's "humane"

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I am not wilfully ignoring anything but then I am not desperately looking for dirt for a smear campaign to fit my agenda.

There is little doubt there are several groups of people out there looking to get rid of Trump and are not adverse to use anything and anyone to achieve that goal. All I am saying is that although it is not what most would want for the children maybe the separate facilities are better for them. I don’t know and am not pretending to know - but then again nor do those, however much they pretend they do - despite using the situation as a weapon against Trump. Who is worse - that is very difficult to say without more personal knowledge on it - not what is in certain papers - but what are the hard and fast facts.

HMM.

So now you're making out that all these reports from both LEFT AND RIGHT sources are part of some big smear campaign? Anything to try to devalue the truth of the situation I guess...

You are embodying what I've been saying in SD for weeks, that too many people in this world would gladly ignore the facts and reality in favour of being told what they want to hear even if it's lies. We know what's going on in these facilities, we have audio of it, we have similar reports from different sources and we have comments from the people involved confirming it to be true. How much more evidence do you need? Actually scratch that, no amount of evidence will be enough because you aren't interested in facts that go against your world views.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

What a load of old Goebbels.

It gets Worse Alf
that crying child girl
was not separated from her family.


The Time Magazine Editor
Edward Felesenthal
said sorry.



Ref: CNN HD Reliable Sources
6PM show in the UK.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by arista

It gets Worse Alf
that crying child girl
was not separated from her family.


The Time Magazine Editor
Edward Felesenthal
said sorry.



Ref: CNN HD Reliable Sources
6PM show in the UK.

Sounds about right Arista.

[Tom4784]

Imagine deconstructing a metaphorical picture to devalue the reality of the situation...GRIM.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Imagine deconstructing a metaphorical picture to devalue the reality of the situation...GRIM.

"FAKE NEWS! Trump did not really tower over a crying child and sarcastically say Welcome To America this has been PHOTOSHOPPED!! He's never even BEEN to a place that was all red before! Lol believe these lies if you want but everything is actually brilliant in the US right now."

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Imagine deconstructing a metaphorical picture to devalue the reality of the situation...GRIM.

Yes
it is a bit grim.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

It gets Worse Alf
that crying child girl
was not separated from her family.

Omg, next you'll be telling us it's a model and Trump didn't actually pose for the image.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Omg, next you'll be telling us it's a model and Trump didn't actually pose for the image.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"FAKE NEWS! Trump did not really tower over a crying child and sarcastically say Welcome To America this has been PHOTOSHOPPED!! He's never even BEEN to a place that was all red before! Lol believe these lies if you want but everything is actually brilliant in the US right now."

I didn't see that this had already been said and done so much better.

[The Slim Reaper]

Anyone know if that's a model, and whether or not trump actually posed for the pic?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Anyone know if that's a model, and whether or not trump actually posed for the pic?

The kid isn't a model but she also wasn't separated. It's taken from a picture at the border where her mother was stopped and searched (they made her put the girl down to do so, and she's standing watching and crying). However, she wasn't separated from her mother after the search.

Or so I've read.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The kid isn't a model but she also wasn't separated. It's taken from a picture at the border where her mother was stopped and searched (they made her put the girl down to do so, and she's standing watching and crying). However, she wasn't separated from her mother after the search.

Or so I've read.

My post was tongue-in-cheek after reading Marsh's post, but thanks for taking the effort to clarify.

[Marsh.]

Apparently, the image of Trump is taken from him looking over his balcony onto his garden where he currently has 40 immigrant children digging out the new pool.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Apparently, the image of Trump is taken from him looking over his balcony onto his garden where he currently has 40 immigrant children digging out the new pool.

It's only barbaric if they forget to make it a heated pool!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's only barbaric if they forget to make it a heated pool!

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's only barbaric if they forget to make it a heated pool!

With a Mexican pool boy.

[parmnion]

It needs said that you could take a tape recorder into any nursery on any random day and probably be able to record the same noises that sound so shockingly chilling when its stated that they were recordered at a border....