[Withano]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Now please take a minute and find where Ive "come back kicking and screaming " about getting a ban.... I took the ban on the chin as adults do ,my complaint is about ONE mod, not all mods

You’re complaint comes off aggressive, insulting, and rude... so your problem with anybody being anything wont be taken as seriously as you’d like...

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

So you don't think the members giving a small ban for speaking out should have a voice ? You think we should put up and shut up ? THIS is why its all come to a head,because for a long time people HAVE put up and shut up and its caused bad feeling ...Better to have a couple of days bashing out the problem than letting it fester

Well said Chuff,Why can't people see that ? not all of us feel the need to suck up to people who are in a position of 'power' for fear of getting a ban,people are just surmising what THEY think has happened,

[Ninastar]

AnnieK for pres

[Withano]

I thought admins could infract mods, but mods cant infract each other?

[Kazanne]

I for one wish some people would mind their own business and let the admins and mods get on with the job in hand and ,it's no good trying to find out what's gone on,most of you are so far off the mark but's it's fun to watch some thinking they know it all.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

How do you know who banned me ? This will be interesting and prove our point of the sneaky stuff going on in PM if you've been told by a mod that they banned me .. my case will be proven

from what was said here earlier I don't think there's any need for shady stuff.
ban is triggered by a certain number of points, not by a mod as I understood it. Dezzy said he gave a round of 3 point infractions. In same cases, if people had certain number of points before that adding 3 points to their total took them over into an automatic ban.
We don't know how many points we have at any given time so bans tend to be a surprise.
Dezzy admitted to his recent infractions, but normally they're anonymous.
It'd be interesting to see how many points of people who complain about Dezzy were actually given by him. It could prove or disprove the theory that Dezzy is unfair to some people.

[Vicky.]

I am closing this for now. I have like 200 posts or so that I need to catch up on and from a glance its gone pretty bad, with it being basically a witch hunt...was a nice convo for a while at least.

Might reopen in a sec but trying to do 236872346 things at once here so it might be a while

[Vicky.]

On second thoughts, reopening now, didnt realise other staff members had already been in talking about it all...and it does not look as bad actually now as it did at first glance

Ignore me

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

On second thoughts, reopening now, didnt realise other staff members had already been in talking about it all...and it does not look as bad actually now as it did at first glance

Ignore me

..yeah we usually do, you’re an awful mod, Vicky...very ignorable...

[Ammi]

.....

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah we usually do, you’re an awful mod, Vicky...very ignorable...

Reported!

See, I'm practising this reporting stuff. I could get used to this.

[Rob!]

Ammi causing drama?

[Candy Annie Cane]

I think its clear to see the trouble causers now......Miss Ammi and Miss Smudgie.....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I think its clear to see the trouble causers now......Miss Ammi and Miss Smudgie.....

Working on their permabans as we speak!

[Vicky.]

Can we try to keep this an adult conversation too please rather than yet another thread descending into baiting sniping and insulting ? We have endless threads along the same line, so one where people actually get on relatively well and actually listen to each others concerns..should not be too much to ask.

Not directed at anyone in particular but since yesterday there has been a large shift in the way people are posting in here.

[Ninastar]

I just wanna say, Dezzy is a poopnose. DOWN WITH DEZZY

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Personally, nothing changes for me whether suggestions are taken or not. My ignore list will still be just as thick as it is currently, and I don't get infractions.

But from that... here is my view... it seems like TiBB has these rollover/aftermath threads quite frequently, but it almost always seems like nothing is done. I know there's probably issues keeping things from being implemented, I get this... but it would seem to be ridiculous to keep polling users when they've said multiple times what they want, and then nothing changes... I don't know the reason to this, I don't even want to guess... it just seems like it's caused a lot of blue-balling there. Not only for the users, but for the staff as well, since this will be the nth thread and nothing has really changed... (not placing any blame in stating this)

Also, it does seem mob rule is legion here. Some of that is a community issue, not a staff issue, but I do think that dividing moderators into sections is a fairer and more consistent system than what is in place, and these names should be on display... worrying about what users will whine about after ever change isn't really the point of it at all. The point is to add consistency and structure to the situation giving clear lines as to what is expected from the people moderating and from the users, and keeping problems in their respective areas... that's the most that I think can be achieved.

As for making people more amicable and getting along with each other... I think I'd said in the past, that people have become more allergic to censorship, and this is where moderating anything now is really difficult. In the past, we would've just locked all dumpsters fire. Not delete posts or anything, just lock them after a warn and then infractions handled in-thread AFTER warns (which should be easy to create a pattern with SD's failure rate)... the only things that are deleted really are heinous things that are real eyesores... but occasionally when we had a user that explodes and starts to meltdown in a thread, it's embarrassing for them, so we don't leave that up and sometimes we may give them an overnight ban if they're having a night (and won't shut up)...

I don't think SD is the only problem area... it's idealistic to think that handling just one area and cutting it off at the shoulder will solve it... there's a fanning of the flames in the chat threads (I've noticed), but nothing that's quite a rule break (most of the time)... those people don't get hauled off in chains as it seems like the most vocal users are punished. If those posts where they are retaliated against are deleted, then it's distorting the picture and also difficult to make either party own their "stuff"... SD is treated as a "problem child", when the issue is sometimes more complex. I think people pretty much separate into their respective "niches", and I think that's another problem... this forum is very clique-y. This is good and bad considering how small the activity is and there being 100 subsections... but I feel like it will be the death knell of TiBB if it is allowed to keep pulling at the seams... (and that may even be inexorable...)

Being unfiltered for a minute, I think the structure that is in place, has no backbone. I don't know that it's because of the individual moderators, but I do think that there's just too much leeway there and it needs to be sorted both internally and externally. Again, there have been several rollover threads... and even when those fixes seem ideal, there's fears about carrying them out. It's clear the staff here feels their hands are tied, is completely demoralized, and that's to be expected with a board full of rivaling cliques, but no clear idea (to them) of who is running things ... the staffing sounds as chaotic as the board atm.

I can't see personally how the current system could even be working. If it's all global moderators... there's no structure there, no expectations... just... browse the forum and have a free for all? All that means is that the most active mods get the most work, take the most on their shoulders, and the least active can easily coast by on delegating... sounds like a complete dumpster fire if I'm honest. I'd be habitually frustrated, to put it very nicely, if I were in that position. It's an unchecked system at the end of the day for all involved... and not at all in balance with the actual running of things.

The way it's worked at other communities, there's a splitting up of areas and usually 2-3 per area mods depending on schedules... it's divided up, and more mods are requested if required. You should have a 1-2 global moderators who can fill in gaps, and ideally an admin or two that is at least active part of the day... so really, 3-4 global moderators if you include admins... but it just depends on what is needed... but I've seen boards with more activity, but less moderators than this and they have made it work. (probably because they pick active enough staff)

Also, a suggestion probably nobody wants to hear... but maybe because TiBB is effectively downsized (inactivity), it may be time to cull/archive/merge some sections... just to make this simpler.

Anyway, I've written too much as it is as some things needed further explanation... just add my words in the suggestion bin. I acknowledge that I only see one side of the issue (public-facing) and while I saw the second part of what happened, I never saw the first... so while we're alluding to a "problem" here, obviously most of us only know some extent of it... but the rollover threads are all the same. Something isn't working and the current system can and should be improved...

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Maru

Personally, nothing changes for me whether suggestions are taken or not. My ignore list will still be just as thick as it is currently, and I don't get infractions.

But from that... here is my view... it seems like TiBB has these rollover/aftermath threads quite frequently, but it almost always seems like nothing is done. I know there's probably issues keeping things from being implemented, I get this... but it would seem to be ridiculous to keep polling users when they've said multiple times what they want, and then nothing changes... I don't know the reason to this, I don't even want to guess... it just seems like it's caused a lot of blue-balling there. Not only for the users, but for the staff as well, since this will be the nth thread and nothing has really changed... (not placing any blame in stating this)

Also, it does seem mob rule is legion here. Some of that is a community issue, not a staff issue, but I do think that dividing moderators into sections is a fairer and more consistent system than what is in place, and these names should be on display... worrying about what users will whine about after ever change isn't really the point of it at all. The point is to add consistency and structure to the situation giving clear lines as to what is expected from the people moderating and from the users, and keeping problems in their respective areas... that's the most that I think can be achieved.

As for making people more amicable and getting along with each other... I think I'd said in the past, that people have become more allergic to censorship, and this is where moderating anything now is really difficult. In the past, we would've just locked all dumpsters fire. Not delete posts or anything, just lock them after a warn and then infractions handled in-thread AFTER warns (which should be easy to create a pattern with SD's failure rate)... the only things that are deleted really are heinous things that are real eyesores... but occasionally when we had a user that explodes and starts to meltdown in a thread, it's embarrassing for them, so we don't leave that up and sometimes we may give them an overnight ban if they're having a night (and won't shut up)...

I don't think SD is the only problem area... it's idealistic to think that handling just one area and cutting it off at the shoulder will solve it... there's a fanning of the flames in the chat threads (I've noticed), but nothing that's quite a rule break (most of the time)... those people don't get hauled off in chains as it seems like the most vocal users are punished. If those posts where they are retaliated against are deleted, then it's distorting the picture and also difficult to make either party own their "stuff"... SD is treated as a "problem child", when the issue is sometimes more complex. I think people pretty much separate into their respective "niches", and I think that's another problem... this forum is very clique-y. This is good and bad considering how small the activity is and there being 100 subsections... but I feel like it will be the death knell of TiBB if it is allowed to keep pulling at the seams...

Being unfiltered for a minute, I think the structure that is in place, has no backbone. I don't know that it's because of the individual moderators, but I do think that there's just too much leeway there and it needs to be sorted both internally and externally. Again, there have been several rollover threads... and even when those fixes seem ideal, there's fears about carrying them out. It's clear the staff here feels their hands are tied, is completely demoralized, and that's to be expected with a board full of rivaling cliques, but no clear idea (to them) of who is running things ... the staffing sounds as chaotic as the board atm.

I can't see personally how the current system could even be working. If it's all global moderators... there's no structure there, no expectations... just... browse the forum and have a free for all? All that means is that the most active mods get the most work, take the most on their shoulders, and the least active can easily coast by on delegating... sounds like a complete dumpster fire if I'm honest. I'd be habitually frustrated, to put it very nicely, if I were in that position. It's an unchecked system at the end of the day for all involved... and not at all in balance with the actual running of things.

The way it's worked at other communities, there's a splitting up of areas and usually 2-3 per area mods depending on schedules... it's divided up, and more mods are requested if required. You should have a 1-2 global moderators who can fill in gaps, and ideally an admin or two that is at least active part of the day... so really, 3-4 global moderators if you include admins... but it just depends on what is needed... but I've seen boards with more activity, but less moderators than this and they have made it work. (probably because they pick active enough staff)

Also, a suggestion probably nobody wants to hear... but maybe because TiBB is effectively downsized (inactivity), it may be time to cull/archive/merge some sections... just to make this simpler.

Anyway, I've written too much as it is as some things needed further explanation... just add my words in the suggestion bin. I acknowledge that I only see one side of the issue (public-facing) and while I saw the second part of what happened, I never saw the first... so while we're alluding to a "problem" here, obviously most of us only know some extent of it... but the rollover threads are all the same. Something isn't working and the current system can and should be improved...

Great post Maru

[Rob!]

Great post Maru.

It does seem that the staff seem to be having problems of their own. Obviously, we don't see mod towers so I can't really comment on what goes on there. If changes are to be made though, there needs to be proper communication between everyone from mods upwards. Is the right support being given? Why are the mods the ones that seem to get it in the neck from members when things aren't going right?
The way things are going at the minute would suggest not? I'm not trying to poke at anyone in particular, in case it's coming across that way, but there wouldn't be as many problems otherwise, surely?

[Withano]

We’re all getting at the same thing here.

When is the first annual purge?

The night with no rules, and everyone is there to explicitly explain why we all hate each other. Get it all out of our system, and then pretend to love each other again at 7:01am the next morning, ready to keep it all to ourselves for the following 363 days.

I think this could be a cute early summer tradition

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Withano

We’re all getting at the same thing here.

When is the first annual purge?

The night with no rules, and everyone is there to explicitly explain why we all hate each other. Get it all out of our system, and then pretend to love each other again at 7:01am the next morning, ready to keep it all to ourselves for the following 363 days.

I think this could be a cute early summer tradition

We literally did that one time and it was carnage

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

We literally did that one time and it was carnage

Its what the people want bring ha back

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

See? Such a nasty post. You actually seem to take great pleasure in upsetting people, especially as most of your posts seem focussed on doing just that.
So you don't agree with Dezzy's rulings. Boo hoo for you. I know for a fact that he does nothing other than what he has already says he does. All the infractions and bans have to be agreed by the other mods before they are implemented, otherwise, I'm sure you would be receiving a great many more than you clearly do. So you think that he's acerbic and nasty. When dealing with the kind of posts you make, I know for a fact that there's a lot of people on here that hardly blame him. And yes, I'll probably end up getting infracted for this post, and that's fine. But like I've said, if lack of communication amongst the staff is the main issue, then it's posters who frequently like to cause trouble that are causing that problem.

No thats not quite right, we dont need to run infractions by each other but when one is given, it does create its own thread for others to discuss it if they disagree, all infractions are totally transparent. Its not possible to be giving them on the sly or anything. Generally its infractions that put shorter bans on people, but we do have the option to do outright bans if we feel its deserved (again though, we can challenge each other on those too and admin get the final say if we cannot sort it between ourselves).

Long bans need pretty much unanimous agreement on between staff members though, which is why so few are given and why it appears to take a very long time to do anything even when it seems to members that it should be a no brainer really :S

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No thats not quite right, we dont need to run infractions by each other but when one is given, it does create its own thread for others to discuss it if they disagree, all infractions are totally transparent. Its not possible to be giving them on the sly or anything. Generally its infractions that put shorter bans on people, but we do have the option to do outright bans if we feel its deserved (again though, we can challenge each other on those too and admin get the final say if we cannot sort it between ourselves).

Long bans need pretty much unanimous agreement on between staff members though, which is why so few are given and why it appears to take a very long time to do anything even when it seems to members that it should be a no brainer really :S

AW when I got permed and you, Niamh and Josy banded together and reversed it Legends!

[Ashsleigh]

Originally Posted by Withano

We’re all getting at the same thing here.

When is the first annual purge?

The night with no rules, and everyone is there to explicitly explain why we all hate each other. Get it all out of our system, and then pretend to love each other again at 7:01am the next morning, ready to keep it all to ourselves for the following 363 days.

I think this could be a cute early summer tradition

It would be a bloody holiday for Marsh.

(But yes, I'd be interested to see how this would go down.)