[Livia]

Originally Posted by Denver

Israel are gonna end up tried on war crimes after using illegal bombs

Hamas broke International law on Saturday on several counts. Do you have anything to say about that? I mean, are you just here to cause trouble or do you want a debate? Because right now you sound pretty uninformed.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hamas broke International law on Saturday on several counts. Do you have anything to say about that? I mean, are you just here to cause trouble or do you want a debate? Because right now you sound pretty uninformed.

Israel stole the land and aimed to cleanse it of all Islam, just because you hate Muslims doesn't make your opinion right.

Israel are no better then the west when it comes to illegally occupying counties based on lies

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Denver

Israel stole the land and aimed to cleanse it of all Islam, just because you hate Muslims doesn't make your opinion right.

Israel are no better then the west when it comes to illegally occupying counties based on lies

Go read the thread, you might learn something. Your child-like summing up is embarrassing.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Denver

Israel are gonna end up tried on war crimes after using illegal bombs

As they should be, they’ve gotten away with their atrocities against the people of Palestine for too long

[Denver]

Just as I thought no response when your called out on spreading lies

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Denver

Just as I thought no response when your called out on spreading lies

Are you okay?

I suppose 250 people weren't shot dead at a festival either

No elderly or women were taken

People weren't burned alive

That german lady paraded around half naked with a bunch of hard men sitting on her was a figment of our imagination

Please...

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

Are you okay?

I suppose 250 people weren't shot dead at a festival either

No elderly or women were taken

People weren't burned alive

That german lady paraded around half naked with a bunch of hard men sitting on her was a figment of our imagination

Please...

There is no physical evidence that 250 people were killed out the festival alone

No evidence of rape

No evidence of murdered babies

And the mother of the girl has a complete different story to the IDF


There is also a Jewish woman who was told by Hamas they had no intention of killing her

The IDF are known to lie and I dont trust their statements nor do I trust the statements of Hamas

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Denver

There is no physical evidence that 250 people were killed out the festival alone

No evidence of rape

No evidence of murdered babies

And the mother of the girl has a complete different story to the IDF

so they bulldozed and paraglided in to do what exactly>
There is also a Jewish woman who was told by Hamas they had no intention of killing her

The IDF are known to lie and I dont trust their statements nor do I trust the statements of Hamas

so they bulldozed and paraglided in to do what exactly? what was the intention?

[Cherie]

For the record I dont agree with cutting off vital supplies to civilians but Hamas are the key to starting this

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so they bulldozed and paraglided in to do what exactly? what was the intention?

Just because they forced their way in and killed people doesn't make all the facts true especially when the facts were told by the enemy

[arista]

Israel was given the Land
after WW2.

Great Britain oversaw the paper signed

[bots]

the more interesting thing is that Denver was saying how terrible it was for Israel in this very thread a couple of days ago.

I think he has been listening to the BLM propaganda

[Denver]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the more interesting thing is that Denver was saying how terrible it was for Israel in this very thread a couple of days ago.

Its terrible for the civilians not the government

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Denver

Its terrible for the civilians not the government

Indeed, IMO there simply is no morally right side to take in this conflict politically. It's a MESS, it's been a mess for the better part of a century. The only victims in this are not "Palestine" or "Israel", they are the civilians from both countries who are suffering because of machinations they have no control over.

There's elements of that in every war and it has always been thus... however, in this, far more than most.

And the social media disinformation and "side taking" doesn't help matters... as well as being inappropriate, and crass to the point of being disgusting. Infested with the usual banal, shallow tribalism completely devoid of any hint of consideration or compassion.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Indeed, IMO there simply is no morally right side to take in this conflict politically. It's a MESS, it's been a mess for the better part of a century. The only victims in this are not "Palestine" or "Israel", they are the civilians from both countries who are suffering because of machinations they have no control over.

There's elements of that in every war and it has always been thus... however, in this, far more than most.

And the social media disinformation and "side taking" doesn't help matters... as well as being inappropriate, and crass to the point of being disgusting. Infested with the usual banal, shallow tribalism completely devoid of any hint of consideration or compassion.

you either wash your hands of it or you take a side in any war. Thats the way of war

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

you either wash your hands of it or you take a side in any war. Thats the way of war

I fundamentally reject this statement as anti-intellectual claptrap, sorry BOTS. It is absolutely possible to observe any conflict (be that between two of your pals or two world powers) from an as-objective-as-possible analytical standpoint whilst still empathising with anyone caught up in the carnage through no fault of their own.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

you either wash your hands of it or you take a side in any war. Thats the way of war

It's the normal, human response.

[Denver]

The problem is the West refuse to look into the history, how can Israel reclaim land that was never theirs to reclaim?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Denver

The problem is the West refuse to look into the history, how can Israel reclaim land that was never theirs to reclaim?

Sure
that's a battle going on
for some time now

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Denver

The problem is the West refuse to look into the history, how can Israel reclaim land that was never theirs to reclaim?

i suggest just the first few minutes may help you..

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i suggest just the first few minutes may help you..

If anyone hasn't seen this I would urge you to spend the 15 minutes it will take. I particularly like her explanation of the racism of the left. Thank you, LT, for posting it.

Not the Hamas apologists, don't you bother watching it in case you learn something. You all stick to your guns, no pun intended.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

If anyone hasn't seen this I would urge you to spend the 15 minutes it will take. I particularly like her explanation of the racism of the left. Thank you, LT, for posting it.

Not the Hamas apologists, don't you bother watching it in case you learn something. You all stick to your guns, no pun intended.

I think most people who know their history know the full history laid out here, but it's like trying to justify a group of ehtnically ancient celtic Britons being handed a chunk of England and then expanding outwards to claim most of Britain based on the idea that "they were here first". Or to use a more obvious example, booting everyone who doesn't have verified Native American blood out of the US. It's factually accurate that these populations were "there first" but when it comes down to it, it means nothing; pretty much every country in the world has changed hands multiple times. It doesn't justify the arbitrary division of Palestine by Britain post-WW2, and it doesn't justify the continued "push outwards" and various occupations by Israel since.

I'm not a Hamas apologist as I think I've made abundantly clear throughout this thread; nothing justifies the horrors of terrorism (especially as it doesn't and won't work, it will inevitably make things even far worse for the civilians in the area) and nothing justifies careless targetting of civilian areas in response.

But it is important for the historical context to be accurate and unbiased. The way it's outlined here just isn't... for the reasons I've outlined above. "We were there first hundreds and hundreds of years back" doesn't mean anything on any other piece of land... and it likewise means nothing here.

[arista]

Jerusalem on VE Day, 8 May 1945

[Gusto Brunt]

I have to say I cried when I saw that lifeless baby being pulled out of the rubble of a house.

[Nicky91]

meanwhile in Netherlands, in Urk to be more specific

https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/11/israel...homes-set-fire

Nearly two dozen Israeli flags were collected and set on fire in Urk overnight, the police confirmed to NL Times. The municipality of Urk said that the flags were taken from homes and set alight next to De Poort church, a Reformed Protestant Church.

“Many people in our municipality feel connected with the people in Israel, so they are hanging flags on their houses,” a spokesperson for Urk told NL Times on Wednesday. “Last night, about 20 Israeli flags were taken down, collected, and burned next to a church.”

“We have indeed received reports about Israeli flags set on fire in Urk,” a spokesperson for the police said. Police officers were working in the neighborhoods where the incidents happened to collect more information and to give victims an opportunity to press charges.

Police were also notified about a video going viral online showing someone stomping on an Israeli flag while removing it from the front of someone’s home. Anyone with video, images, or information related to the investigation should contact police, a spokesperson told NL Times. No arrests have been made, and police did not release a description of anyone suspected of involvement.

The spokesperson for Urk said that they had not yet decided whether to press charges as a municipality, or to leave it to the individual households. She said the Israeli flag was also hoisted at the Urk City Hall building, where it will remain for the week. That flag was not taken down and burned at the De Poort church with the others. The debris was cleaned up by the municipality.

The spokesperson said she does not know if that church was chosen for a reason or if it was random. The Bethelkerk, a church connected to De Poort church, was scheduled to host an event Wednesday evening called “Urk Sings for Israel.”