[MrGaryy]

[rquote=2586494&tid=147768&author=Harry.]Madonna's VMA speech proves how much a legend he was. Always will be remembered for how inspiring he was and how much talent he had to offer. Now there is only one legend left, That is Madonna. Long live the king and queen of pop![/rquote]

erm Whitney?

[Shaun]

[rquote=2586542&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2586359&tid=147768&author=Iceman][rquote=2586350&tid=147768&author=Lauren]I don't think I've ever heard anyone doubt his contribution to music.[/rquote]

Yeah ive never heard anyone talk bad about his music...[/rquote]

First time for everything then ... most of it is sh*t and I don't buy into the whole "music wouldn't be what it is" without him. He was just a cog in the Motown wheel, so many other artists that sounded a lot like him. [/rquote]



Thriller. Off The Wall. Bad. 3 of the best albums of all time. I...no, I don't know where to begin with that. Tom, honestly, get out.

[InOne]

Yeah he did make a massvie contribution to music. Doubt anyone will ever have that impact again.

[Tom]

[rquote=2589055&tid=147768&author=Shaun][rquote=2586542&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2586359&tid=147768&author=Iceman][rquote=2586350&tid=147768&author=Lauren]I don't think I've ever heard anyone doubt his contribution to music.[/rquote]

Yeah ive never heard anyone talk bad about his music...[/rquote]

First time for everything then ... most of it is sh*t and I don't buy into the whole "music wouldn't be what it is" without him. He was just a cog in the Motown wheel, so many other artists that sounded a lot like him. [/rquote]



Thriller. Off The Wall. Bad. 3 of the best albums of all time. I...no, I don't know where to begin with that. Tom, honestly, get out.[/rquote]

I don't think ANYONE can have a revolutionary effect on music. Where I'm not denying his strong sales and that some of his songs were good, IMO most of them were rubbish. What was this amazing impact on music he was supposed to have had? Why was he so different from other people despite having a longer career than most, which might I add died on its arse by the end. Where were his fans then?

[InOne]

You do betten than MJ Tom, then you can have an opinion.

[Shaun]

Tom - look at Justin Timberlake, Usher, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown - they're all carbon copies of his dancing and music style; none of that was around before him.

The music video: Thriller. It's undeniable how much of an impact that had on the music video revolution - ever since people have been trying to make brilliant videos. The choreography was similarly influencial.

[arsenalforever]

OFF the wall and Thriller are classic's and the stuff with Jackson 5 is classic

very,thing after sucked

[InOne]

I liked, 'Give in to me' by him and Slash.

[Tom]

[rquote=2590765&tid=147768&author=InOne]You do betten than MJ Tom, then you can have an opinion.[/rquote]

Then you can apply that to anyone, right down to one hit wonders who you can't slag off because they've done better than you

[rquote=2590792&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Tom - look at Justin Timberlake, Usher, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown - they're all carbon copies of his dancing and music style; none of that was around before him.

The music video: Thriller. It's undeniable how much of an impact that had on the music video revolution - ever since people have been trying to make brilliant videos. The choreography was similarly influencial. [/rquote]

Dancing- yeah I can see that. But not the same style as Usher etc at all. MJ was pop, they aren't. I agree that Thriller was a good music video but people were trying to make good ones before that and because it was at a time when videos had only just started it was inevitable people were going to try and make really good ones afterwards. Obviously Thriller set a benchmark but it doesn't make it revolutionary ... Where I'm not denying his influence I just think its vastly overrated and he was nowhere near as influential as a lot of people think

[Shaun]

Influence = people like JT/Chris Brown/Neyo/Usher growing up with his music and deciding that's what they want to do. What isn't influencial about that? Even they themselves cite him as a huge influence.

[Tom]

[rquote=2591475&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Influence = people like JT/Chris Brown/Neyo/Usher growing up with his music and deciding that's what they want to do. What isn't influencial about that? Even they themselves cite him as a huge influence.[/rquote]

Because they might have wanted to do that anyway by looking at other big artists that were around at that time?

[Shaun]

But they didn't - they were inspired by him. I think your hatred of him is blinding you here. Meh I'm done. He IS a massive influence on music, no question.

[Tom]

[rquote=2591483&tid=147768&author=Shaun]But they didn't - they were inspired by him. I think your hatred of him is blinding you here. Meh I'm done. He IS a massive influence on music, no question.[/rquote]

I didn't say he wasn't, its just overstated. And they will have been influenced by other artists anyway ..........

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2586359&tid=147768&author=Iceman][rquote=2586350&tid=147768&author=Lauren]I don't think I've ever heard anyone doubt his contribution to music.[/rquote]

Yeah ive never heard anyone talk bad about his music...[/rquote]

I've heard loads of people doubt his music and his contribution as well.

Just melody slave are most of his songs and he's iconic due to the massive publicity campaign around the Thriller and Bad videos.

I like the songs, some of them are great but I think he's a pop icon, owing a great deal to publicity and marketing.

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2590792&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Tom - look at Justin Timberlake, Usher, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown - they're all carbon copies of his dancing and music style; none of that was around before him.

The music video: Thriller. It's undeniable how much of an impact that had on the music video revolution - ever since people have been trying to make brilliant videos. The choreography was similarly influencial. [/rquote]

I think all those artists were not really made because of Michael and are hardly carbon copies of his dancing or music. His music is just generic pop - be it very good pop music. Far better than what the above mentioned do.

I think the ones you mentioned are in the industry due to a demand for dance led music with lyrics that require an image to go with it. That image is a man making sexually suggestive movements while he dances which is what the people you mention do.

If the industry didn't want that then they wouldn't have a chance in the business because they're just a bunch of singers with little to no musical talent.

[alc09]

Oh shut the **** up Tom, you're talking absolute shite.

[CookieDough4000]

[rquote=2589347&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2589055&tid=147768&author=Shaun][rquote=2586542&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2586359&tid=147768&author=Iceman][rquote=2586350&tid=147768&author=Lauren]I don't think I've ever heard anyone doubt his contribution to music.[/rquote]

Yeah ive never heard anyone talk bad about his music...[/rquote]

First time for everything then ... most of it is sh*t and I don't buy into the whole "music wouldn't be what it is" without him. He was just a cog in the Motown wheel, so many other artists that sounded a lot like him. [/rquote]



Thriller. Off The Wall. Bad. 3 of the best albums of all time. I...no, I don't know where to begin with that. Tom, honestly, get out.[/rquote]

I don't think ANYONE can have a revolutionary effect on music. Where I'm not denying his strong sales and that some of his songs were good, IMO most of them were rubbish. What was this amazing impact on music he was supposed to have had? Why was he so different from other people despite having a longer career than most, which might I add died on its arse by the end. Where were his fans then?

[/rquote]

Where were all his fans then? Buying all the tickets to his sell-out comeback tour? Where do you want them to be, wiping his arse? What the hell are you talking about? Who the hell are you? You began this stupid tirade with a particularly ridiculous statement, 'I don't believe any music act can be revolutionary'. What kind of a ****ing statement is that? Have you not heard of Little Richard? Elvis Presley? The Beatles?

[rquote=2591008&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2590765&tid=147768&author=InOne]You do betten than MJ Tom, then you can have an opinion.[/rquote]

Then you can apply that to anyone, right down to one hit wonders who you can't slag off because they've done better than you

[rquote=2590792&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Tom - look at Justin Timberlake, Usher, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown - they're all carbon copies of his dancing and music style; none of that was around before him.

The music video: Thriller. It's undeniable how much of an impact that had on the music video revolution - ever since people have been trying to make brilliant videos. The choreography was similarly influencial. [/rquote]

Dancing- yeah I can see that. But not the same style as Usher etc at all. MJ was pop, they aren't. I agree that Thriller was a good music video but people were trying to make good ones before that and because it was at a time when videos had only just started it was inevitable people were going to try and make really good ones afterwards. Obviously Thriller set a benchmark but it doesn't make it revolutionary ... Where I'm not denying his influence I just think its vastly overrated and he was nowhere near as influential as a lot of people think [/rquote]

Not the same style? Do you even know who Usher is? All these modern RnB artists are carbon copy rip-offs of Michael Jackson: the high pitched voice, the dance moves.

And you totally miss the ****ing point, people were not trying to make music videos like that before him. He was the one that turned the music video into an art form. Everybody acknowledges this. Why the hell are you trying to deny it? Are you being oppositional for its own sake? Did you have authoritarian parents? What are you going to argue next, that the earth is flat? For God's sake, stop talking ****.

[rquote=2591481&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2591475&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Influence = people like JT/Chris Brown/Neyo/Usher growing up with his music and deciding that's what they want to do. What isn't influencial about that? Even they themselves cite him as a huge influence.[/rquote]

Because they might have wanted to do that anyway by looking at other big artists that were around at that time?

[/rquote]

What a load of ****ing crap. Name one please? Pink Floyd? Queen? ABBA? Oh what's that? None of the big artists immediately before Michael Jackson were like Michael Jackson? Oh. Yeah. **** off.

[Tom]

[rquote=2591628&tid=147768&author=alc09]Oh shut the **** up Tom, you're talking absolute shite.[/rquote]

You shut the ****** up just because someone has a different opinion to you

[Tom]

[rquote=2592145&tid=147768&author=CookieDough4000]
Not the same style? Do you even know who Usher is? All these modern RnB artists are carbon copy rip-offs of Michael Jackson: the high pitched voice, the dance moves.[/quote]

Michael Jackson wasn't an RnB artist and his style is completely different to Usher. OK maybe the high pitched voice but thats about where it ends, and he doesn't even use that very frequently anyway.

And you totally miss the ****ing point, people were not trying to make music videos like that before him. He was the one that turned the music video into an art form. Everybody acknowledges this. Why the hell are you trying to deny it? Are you being oppositional for its own sake? Did you have authoritarian parents? What are you going to argue next, that the earth is flat? For God's sake, stop talking ****.

Erm, yes they were. Stop talking ****. Michael's set the benchmark thats all.

Where were all his fans then? Buying all the tickets to his sell-out comeback tour? Where do you want them to be, wiping his arse? What the hell are you talking about? Who the hell are you? You began this stupid tirade with a particularly ridiculous statement, 'I don't believe any music act can be revolutionary'. What kind of a ****ing statement is that? Have you not heard of Little Richard? Elvis Presley? The Beatles?

If they were true fans they would have supported him and not have let his career die on its arse by the end. And no I don't think any act can be that revolutionary. Yes I have heard of them and whilst I'm not denying their influence (including MJ's) I think they're very overstated and nowhere near as influential as some think. At the end of the day, people are their own artists.

[quote]What a load of ****ing crap. Name one please? Pink Floyd? Queen? ABBA? Oh what's that? None of the big artists immediately before Michael Jackson were like Michael Jackson? Oh. Yeah. **** off.[/rquote]

Were there many acts like ABBA around before them? No. And a lot of artists around before Michael some people use as an inspiration, even going into Motown (where MJ originated from and sounded just like everyone else).

Looks like you're another one who can't accept a differing opinion so has to resort to being rude

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2589347&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2589055&tid=147768&author=Shaun][rquote=2586542&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2586359&tid=147768&author=Iceman][rquote=2586350&tid=147768&author=Lauren]I don't think I've ever heard anyone doubt his contribution to music.[/rquote]

Yeah ive never heard anyone talk bad about his music...[/rquote]

First time for everything then ... most of it is sh*t and I don't buy into the whole "music wouldn't be what it is" without him. He was just a cog in the Motown wheel, so many other artists that sounded a lot like him. [/rquote]



Thriller. Off The Wall. Bad. 3 of the best albums of all time. I...no, I don't know where to begin with that. Tom, honestly, get out.[/rquote]

I don't think ANYONE can have a revolutionary effect on music. Where I'm not denying his strong sales and that some of his songs were good, IMO most of them were rubbish. What was this amazing impact on music he was supposed to have had? Why was he so different from other people despite having a longer career than most, which might I add died on its arse by the end. Where were his fans then?

[/rquote]

I have to agree. Since Bad, he's been fairly rubbish with the odd decent song now and again. He was like any other pop star having no real staying power unless they have scandal of some sort.

Rock stars have staying power because they are musicians inside and out while pop stars are record company fodder. Just an image.

I can't knock Michael for talent. He is a talented man but I think there are far more talented people like Michael in the music industry and outside it too. Michael was just lucky to have had the connections he had.

[Shaun]

Tom, seriously, you talk so much ****

[Tom]

[rquote=2592365&tid=147768&author=Shaun]Tom, seriously, you talk so much ****[/rquote]

Or maybe you just can't accept we don't all think the sun shines out his arse

[CookieDough4000]

[rquote=2592347&tid=147768&author=Tom]
Michael Jackson wasn't an RnB artist and his style is completely different to Usher. OK maybe the high pitched voice but thats about where it ends, and he doesn't even use that very frequently anyway.[/quote]

Really? You ****ing think you know more about who influenced Usher than Usher does, do you? Why don't you **** off and do some ****ing research before you start making this crappy points. How about here for a ****ing start.

"Jackson transformed the art of the music video and paved the way for modern pop music in his own country. Jackson's work, distinctive musical sound and vocal style have influenced scores of hip hop, pop and R&B artists, including Mariah Carey,[222] Usher,[223] Britney Spears,[222] Justin Timberlake[109] and R. Kelly.[179] For much of his career, he had an "unparalleled" level of worldwide influence over the younger generation through his musical and humanitarian contributions.[224] Jackson's videos and music helped break down racial barriers when first shown on MTV, putting the relatively new channel on the map, changing its focus from rock to pop music and R&B, and therefore shaping it to what it is today. Jackson remained a staple on MTV through the 90s."

Talking out of your arse? Yeah.

Erm, yes they were. Stop talking ****. Michael's set the benchmark thats all.

Okay. Want to ****ing name one? Here's a ****ing idea for you, yeah? You stop making blanket statements and start giving proof. 'Yes there were'. You've had plenty of time to name one. Here's another chance. And you've just admitted you were talking ****, because you yourself just said 'Michael set the benchmark'. That's our whole ****ing point.

If they were true fans they would have supported him and not have let his career die on its arse by the end. And no I don't think any act can be that revolutionary. Yes I have heard of them and whilst I'm not denying their influence (including MJ's) I think they're very overstated and nowhere near as influential as some think. At the end of the day, people are their own artists.

Yeah, again, you might want to make sure you know what you're ****ing talking about before you s*** all over your own argument. Michael's last release was 'Invincible' in 2001, and what's that? It went to number one in every major country in the world and sold thirteen million copies? Oh yeah, more ****ing bullshit from you. And when the new tour was announced, what happened? Oh that's right, it ****ing sold out immediately. His fans were there for him in every way they could be. They bought his records, bought his tickets. His career didn't die, which is why he had such a ****ing huge tour coming. It was halted by the accusations against him, that is ****ing all. The last time he released an album is sold millions, the last time he announced a tour it sold out straight-a-****ing-way, in between he released nothing for the fans to support.

People are not their own ****ing artists. Everyone is influenced by those that come before them, and some influence more than others. You're saying Elvis's influence is overrated? Little Richard's? Are you ****ing serious? You think artists just wake up one morning and happen to make music that sounds just like the music of other people? You are talking such ****. Every artist acknowledges influences. Who the **** do you think you are to tell them they're wrong?

[quote]
Were there many acts like ABBA around before them? No. And a lot of artists around before Michael some people use as an inspiration, even going into Motown (where MJ originated from and sounded just like everyone else).

Looks like you're another one who can't accept a differing opinion so has to resort to being rude [/rquote]

Nobody has said Michael is the only influence. It's you that has decided to disagree with everyone - with the musical community, with the consensus, with MTV, and with Usher and all the other artists themselves - by saying he's overrated. You don't have a clue what you're ****ing talking about.

Looks like you're another one of those twats who thinks that 'it's my opinion' counts as a ****ing argument. Your opinion isn't worth s*** unless you can back it up reasoning and facts. You've provided ****ing neither.

[Tom]

I'm not even going to respond to any of that because you're being so rude its unreal, all I can see is ***** everywhere so I'm not even going to bother reading it, because its going to be full of attacks. Until you can learn to argue properly without resorting to such tactics and keeping calm, without getting upset that someone has a different opinion to you, then I'm not bothering.

[CookieDough4000]

[rquote=2592432&tid=147768&author=Tom]I'm not even going to respond to any of that because you're being so rude its unreal, all I can see is ***** everywhere so I'm not even going to bother reading it, because its going to be full of attacks. Until you can learn to argue properly without resorting to such tactics and keeping calm, without getting upset that someone has a different opinion to you, then I'm not bothering.

[/rquote]

Hahaha, nice excuse. You were wrong. Have the balls to admit it.