[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Your opinion is somewhat handicapped though. You said you worked on wards with alcoholics. That's bound to turn anyone sour, understandably so, cleaning up piss and taking abuse from them.

It's an opinion clouded by your profession. And as the topic title asks are they illneses/diseases, and they are, opinions need not apply.

Also, your posts I notice got slightly more compassionate as they went along. Your initial 'opinion' was misguided to say the least :



Very vague, cruel, sweeping statement that people were obviously going to have issue with.

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

I doubt a lot of people would agree. Just seems a pretty narrow minded view.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

It's not really Wombai. You're wrong here... totally wrong. I've seen what alcoholism and anorexia can do to people.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

Good for them. The world will always have ignorant people. I wonder do they know they are wrong. After all, Alcoholism and Anorexia are illnesses. Unless you want to disagree with every expert body in the field in fucking existence.

As for the moral outrage from me and others being laughable? How so? We have pefectly acceptable, valid, correct points.

It really does speak for everything you are starting to stand for on this forum that you see fit to not reply to the majority of my post and simply wave away all our arguments as 'laughable' because they disagree with your own misguided opinion on the matter.

What's laughable about them? We had every right to offer up a rebuttal to what was an extremely narrow minded, scientifically invalid, potentially offensive, sweeping comment that you made in your original post.

No doubt this will somehow end up as you being the victim of our combined forum tyranny.

Give me a fucking break. Really.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Need I go on?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Need I go on?

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

In the same way you know nothing about the majority of Alcholics and Anorexics yet you still think you can claim to know about the root of their problem.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

I think they can be symptoms of a psychological problem. I had a cousin who was anorexic as a teenager and then went on to be an alcoholic.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I think they can be symptoms of a psychological problem. I had a cousin who was anorexic as a teenager and then went on to be an alcoholic.

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

I think you're right, it's like everything else no situation is ever the same and rarly black and white. I do believe my cousin had psychological issues, she came from a very good family and was highly intelligent, she was a dentist. But I do think in some cases you're absolutely right

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

Of course there will be a certain amount of selfishness in it, there is in all cases of addiction. You know its bad for you and you want to stop, however wanting to stop wont cure the psychological and physiological symptoms of the addiction.

In order to become an addict you have to start using whatever you become addicted to, however thats not to say people decide deliberately to become addicted, most addicts dont realise they are addicted till they realise they have little or no control over it. So in a way yes they are selfish.

Obvously there will be people who during the time of their addiction and treatment are selfish, some will be weak and give in all too easily.

However prior to condemning them, people should try walking in their shoes for a while.

[Tom4784]

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

This tbh...

Though the topic has certainly opened my eyes about some stuff

[Crimson Dynamo]

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

Like that one for cancer

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

There may be no proper medicine but there are a variety of treatment regimes.

There are drugs used in some of those treatments.

Just like there is no cure for the common cold or for flu, but there are drugs that can be used for symptomatic relief.

Why is there not a cure for ignorance and stupidity, you should ask, LT

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

You can't treat addiction with medication and you can only treat Anorexia with therapy and routine and such. I don't know enough about ME to talk about treatment but if it's medically proven to exist then there's little room for debate.

[Stu]

http://www.showmethefacts.org/medica...ite-stimulant/

Just throwing it out there .

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Stu

http://www.showmethefacts.org/medica...ite-stimulant/

Just throwing it out there .

Same stuff is also useful for pain relief in MS and also in the treatment of ME

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Same stuff is also useful for pain relief in ME

I was also pondering if constant topics denouncing others of the tag of 'illness' and looking down on them was also a symptom of ME.

I think it is .

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I completely agree that sick people need help and compassion! I see plenty of genuinely sick people! I guess it just depends on your definition of sick! And who are you to tell me I haven't the faintest idea what I am talking about! A 19 year old expert on anorexia and alcoholism no doubt!

I am not an expert, but I have had friends and acquaintances suffer from both, and have also met a sizeable number of people through being manic depressive who either became manic depressive through suffering with these ailments or whose bipolar disorder acted as a starting point for them.

So I am somewhat informed, yes. And not a damn one of them was looking for attention, from what I could tell.

You are simply wrong. You as much as admitted it yourself.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

which eventually leads to physical and mental illness!

[Shasown]

Alcoholism as a disease/illness manifests itself in many ways from the person who goes weeks without end then binges over a self limiting period, to the person who physically/psychologically needs alcohol to function.

It may seem to some to be an excuse for drinking however if you have never suffered from it , or have had a close member suffer from it, you have no idea how it really does affect a person and those around him or her.

[Stu]

It's no different from people who attempt suicide as a way of seeking attention. They might have been seeking attention, yes, but they damn well deserve the attention - professional attention - if that's how they were trying to go about getting it!

There is almost always an underlying mental disorder that drives people to these actions. They don't wake up and decide to kill themselves over time as a way of getting attention. They need treatment and if this thread has proved anything - it has proved that there is absoloutely no place for ignorant people to come along, spew out a few vague 'tough law' statements and go back to whatever they were doing.

When you are dealing with the mind, it's never that simple I'm afraid. Delicate fucker that it is .

[InOne]

To say it is purely attention seeking is pretty narrow minded, ignorant and shallow really.

[InOne]

You were wrong WOMBAI, just admit it. Opinions don't really come into it.