[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

No the UK is a single country. What you call countries are called states or provinces in other countries. The UK has 1 single seat at the UN and 1 single team at the olympics, why? because the UK is one single country.

To be honest, fair enough with that, so kudos to you (my personal flaw) but the rest of my post is correct.

[lostalex]

Well i think it would be criminal to force someone to marry, i'm assuming some violence or intimidation must be involved to FORCE someone to sign a document against their will. You cannot be married without both parties signature correct?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well i think it would be criminal to force someone to marry, i'm assuming some violence or intimidation must be involved to FORCE someone to sign a document against their will. You cannot be married without both parties signature correct?

The thing is, it isn't criminal over here. Immoral, yes (quite presumably) but most definitely not illegal. What's your opinion has been absolutely crushed to crumbs by statistics, as has been explained to you numerous times on this thread. Here - where we have valid substantiation present to prove and disprove arguments - we have to argue objectively (i.e. as a definite answer), not subjectively (i.e. not as an opinion, e.g. I think voluntary euthanasia is wrong but you're welcome to disagree) and if you cannot comprehend that then I'm not wasting my time arguing with you on this matter.

[lostalex]

So you are telling me, a man can walk into a british office and violently force a woman to sign a marriage application? and there would be no criminal charges laid against that man?

i don't believe it.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Redway

The thing is, it isn't criminal over here. Immoral, yes (quite presumably) but most definitely not illegal. What's your opinion has been absolutely crushed to crumbs by statistics, as has been explained to you numerous times on this thread. Here - where we have valid substantiation present to prove and disprove arguments - we have to argue objectively (i.e. as a definite answer), not subjectively (i.e. not as an opinion, e.g. I think voluntary euthanasia is wrong but you're welcome to disagree) and if you cannot comprehend that then I'm not wasting my time arguing with you on this matter.

Yes thanks to New Labour

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

So you are telling me, a man can walk into a british office and violently force a woman to sign a marriage application? and there would be no criminal charges laid against that man?

i don't believe it.

Well, look, whether or not you believe it, it's true. You can argue about this and take it round the houses all day but it's been proven in black and white. You have to accept that, whether or not you agree with it.

[Kizzy]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...rs?view=Binary

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...on?view=Binary

[Redway]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes thanks to New Labour

It doesn't matter who put the law in action. It's still legal.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by lostalex

No the UK is a single country. What you call countries are called states or provinces in other countries. The UK has 1 single seat at the UN and 1 single team at the olympics, why? because the UK is one single country. If you think england, wales, and scotland are separate countries, well then take it up with the UN, not me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain) is a sovereign state located off the north-western coast of continental Europe. The country includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland and many smaller islands. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK that shares a land border with another sovereign state—the Republic of Ireland. Apart from this land border the UK is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, the North Sea, the English Channel and the Irish Sea.

The United Kingdom is a unitary state governed under a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system, with its seat of government in the capital city of London. It is a country in its own right and consists of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. There are three devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff, the capitals of Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.

The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :

Team GB is an abbreviation of the official nickname given to the representative teams of the British Olympic Association and British Paralympic Association (who are officially known as "ParalympicsGB"[1] ), Team GB and Northern Ireland. The nickname has courted controversy outside of England, Scotland and Wales, who together form Great Britain, mainly from Northern Ireland Unionist MPs who feel it excludes and alienates nations outside of the Island of Great Britain.

The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...diagram_15.svg

They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe that include the islands of Great Britain, Ireland and over six thousand smaller isles. There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom) and the Republic of Ireland (officially and also known commonly as Ireland). The British Isles also include three dependencies of the British Crown: the Isle of Man and, by tradition, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey in the Channel Islands, although the latter are not physically a part of the archipelago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termino..._British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy

[Omah]

Originally Posted by kizzy

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...rs?view=Binary

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...on?view=Binary

I think you've scooped the prize for best link today .....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom



The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :



The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...diagram_15.svg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termino..._British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy

1 seat at the UN. The UK is a "soverign state" so what does that mean. lol if the UK wants to be called a state, does that mean you think all 50 of the American states are individual countries too??

we are playing semantics. it's boring.

The UKGBNI is a country, just like the USA, or the Soviet Union(r.i.p.) or the PRC(people's republic of china)

[Kizzy]

Ahhh....Having had a little skeg through the UK are maybe acting a little tricky on this and I agree...
Instead of criminalising the act of 'forced marriage' and risk a cultural backlash, the factors relating to the offence are already covered by current legislation...

Kidnapping
Child Abduction
Assault
False Inprisonment
Threats to kill
Public Order offences
Sexual offences
Harrassment/ stalking
Child cruelty
Blackmail

All these can be put forward as representative and carry considerable sentences...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

I think you've scooped the prize for best link today .....

Fanks!

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom



The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :



The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...diagram_15.svg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termino..._British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy

Thank you so much for posting that, Omah. It seems Alex's entire argument was wrong, then.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Redway

Thank you so much for posting that, Omah. It seems Alex's entire argument was wrong, then.

actually it's not lol, the UK still only has 1 UN seat and 1 olympic team.

please tell me what other olympic teams or UN seats the UK has...

I don't see how he proved anything i said wrong... lol

[Omah]

Originally Posted by lostalex

1 seat at the UN. The UK is a "soverign state" so what does that mean. lol if the UK wants to be called a state, does that mean you think all 50 of the American states are individual countries too??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state

A sovereign state (or simply state) is classically defined as a state with a defined territory on which it exercises internal and external sovereignty, a permanent population, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states. It is also normally understood to be a state which is neither dependent on nor subject to any other power or state. The existence or disappearance of a state is a question of fact. While according to the declaratory theory of state recognition a sovereign state can exist without being recognised by other sovereign states, unrecognised states will often find it hard to exercise full treaty-making powers and engage in diplomatic relations with other sovereign states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states

(207, including the USA)

[Kizzy]

Feck the olympics ...Stick to the issue here please.....Do you want me to get arista in here to sort you out?....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually it's not lol, the UK still only has 1 UN seat and 1 olympic team.

please tell me what other olympic teams or UN seats the UK has...

I don't see how he proved anything i said wrong... lol

You obviously have not read enough about the geographical and political history if the British Isles to understand how and why they are separately formed and named.

I believe that, if we throw Empire and Commonwealth into the mix, it will be totally beyond your comprehension .....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Omah

You obviously have not read enough about the geographical and political history if the British Isles to understand how and why they are separately formed and named.

I believe that, if we throw Empire and Commonwealth into the mix, it will be totally beyond your comprehension .....

and you don't seem to understand REALITY.

1 flag, 1 country. get over it. if you wanna change it, well then send a fan letter to Alex Salmond, i'm sure he'll appreciate it.

The US has plenty of territories that are individual countries and each have their own seats at the UN, and send their own teams to the olympics, so yes, as an American i do understand what you're getting at, i'm telling you that you are wrong though, and i am right.

I don't think the other members of the commonwealth would like your implication that they are part of the Uk as a country lol, i'm pretty sure they consider themselves INDEPENDENT countries.

Last time i checked India, and Australia, and Pakistan, and Jamaica are not willing to call themselves BRITISH.

England, Wales, Scotland, and NI, are just states of the UK though, in the same way that California, Florida, New York, and Texas are part of the USA

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

and you don't seem to understand REALITY.

1 flag, 1 country. get over it. if you wanna change it, well then send a fan letter to Alex Salmond, i'm sure he'll appreciate it.

So England (country 1), Scotland (country 2), Wales (country 3) and Northern Ireland (country 4) are all one country now? Laughing my arse off. 4 in 1, yeah? Four countries = 1 country? Is that what you're saying, darling? Is that what you're saying? Please - give me an effing break.

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

or

Youtube video

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Redway

So England (country 1), Scotland (country 2), Wales (country 3) and Northern Ireland (country 4) are all one country now? Laughing my arse off. 4 in 1, yeah? Is that what you're saying? Please - give me an effing break.

just because you use the word "country" doesn't mean anything. they are not sovereign. they do not have their own independent governments, they do not have their own independent militaries. They are part of 1 state/country. They have a central federal government in London. Actually the individual US states have more sovereignty than the individual "countries" in the UK.

[lostalex]

Kizzy, do you actually think i'm that dumb? should i post a video of how different all the US states are? that doesn't mean that the USA is not a country though.

[lostalex]

If the "countries" of the UK are actually individual countries, then please explain to me why there's such a fuss over Scotland becoming a country?? LOL please explain that!!!!

IF IT'S ALREADY A COUNTRY THEN WHY IS IT TRYING TO BECOME A COUNTRY??? PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME???

lol

[lostalex]

Boring semantics. You know that the UK is a country, and that england/wales/scotland/NI are just provinces within that country.

It's a shame that the country that claims to have invented the English language is so piss poor at speaking it without endless pedantic debate over such simple words.