[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Firstly: I would far prefer to not individualise the subject to discussing Kate's own personal circumstances.

I made no assumptions Joey: you did. You also made incorrect assumptions on the percentages as you'd not checked the figures in the link provided.

I am a posting member Joey - and if you (or anyone else for that matter) puts up a post that I wish to comment on, pertaining to the points you have made on the subject matter, then I am entitled to do so.

If you read my second post you will see I amended those percentages,it would have saved you the bother of jumping in again.I originally quoted the percentages the Lib Dem councillors gave to the lady in question.
If I find I post some incorrect information, I alwasy amend it and make it right.

Also Kate had already shared her predicament with all on this thread on the bedroom tax as it is called so I am sure she would have no objection to me commenting briefly as to that to validate my point.

I don't go about nit picking at others posts.

All I am now saying is I didn't want to reply to you directly but chose to on that occasion, I will not again, so if you feel any need to respond to any of my posts please don't expect any reply back.
As also a posting member that is my right too, so I would think it better you respond to those you will get a response from.

[Vicky.]

Im also expecting some of the 'fathers' charities to pick up on this and start protesting (if it hasnt happened already)

A lot of fathers get access only on weekends. And as such have houses large enough to accomodate the children when they stay. If forced to move to a 1 bed or even shared room property...they wont be able to get proper access to their kids.

I know this will be true of some mothers too, as joint custody goes both ways, but I imagine it will affect more fathers, hence fathers charities

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Im also expecting some of the 'fathers' charities to pick up on this and start protesting (if it hasnt happened already)

A lot of fathers get access only on weekends. And as such have houses large enough to accomodate the children when they stay. If forced to move to a 1 bed or even shared room property...they wont be able to get proper access to their kids.

I know this will be true of some mothers too, as joint custody goes both ways, but I imagine it will affect more fathers, hence fathers charities

Have to say: there is something very unfair about what you've picked up on ...

Who will be affected?

All claimants who are deemed to have at least one spare bedroom will be affected. This includes:

• Separated parents who share the care of their children and who may have been allocated an extra bedroom to reflect this. Benefit rules mean that there must be a designated ‘main carer’ for children (who receives the extra benefit)

[Kizzy]

Kiz, please desist - I found the term ironic. My posts are pertaining to the subject matter - not pertaining to you individually which you always try to throw the spin on. If you are unemployed: I am not going to not post because you don't agree with my comments.

You seem to have difficulty in not taking some personal slight every single time I make a post - that is your issue, not mine

There was no irony, only your thinly veiled jibes.
Your opinion as to what constitutes as 'the working class' has nothing to do with the topic in discussion...I do believe you have taken this opportunity to again pull the subject back to your closed thread which I feel is very unfair to kate.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Kiz, please desist - I found the term ironic. My posts are pertaining to the subject matter - not pertaining to you individually which you always try to throw the spin on. If you are unemployed: I am not going to not post because you don't agree with my comments.

You seem to have difficulty in not taking some personal slight every single time I make a post - that is your issue, not mine

There was no irony, only your thinly veiled jibes.
Your opinion as to what constitutes as 'the working class' has nothing to do with the topic in discussion...I do believe you have taken this opportunity to again pull the subject back to your closed thread which I feel is very unfair to kate.

As I say: I will post how I feel on a subject matter. Both you and Kate seem persistent to fault everything that I comment on - and there is no need.

You and Kate may possibly just be feeling a little sensitive, which may be understandable, but that doesn't mean I can't put my point over regarding a subject - which is what I am doing.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

As I say: I will post how I feel on a subject matter. Both you and Kate seem persistent to fault everything that I comment on - and there is no need.

You and Kate may possibly just be feeling a little sensitive, which may be understandable, but that doesn't mean I can't put my point over regarding a subject - which is what I am doing.

there is no need for you to drop your snide digs into threads either.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

As I say: I will post how I feel on a subject matter. Both you and Kate seem persistent to fault everything that I comment on - and there is no need.

You and Kate may possibly just be feeling a little sensitive, which may be understandable, but that doesn't mean I can't put my point over regarding a subject - which is what I am doing.

Thats unfair pyra there is no vendetta..
If someone infers I am lower than working class for being unemployed then yes then I get sensitive as it is a very rude and insensitive thing to say...Yes you have the right to say it, that however does not make it right or fair.
I am done on this topic with you now pyra tbh.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Thats unfair pyra there is no vendetta..
If someone infers I am lower than working class for being unemployed then yes then I get sensitive as it is a very rude and insensitive thing to say...Yes you have the right to say it, that however does not make it right or fair.
I am done on this topic with you now pyra tbh.

it is indeed, however it's what I've come to expect from this poster, who seems to think they can be as rude as they like to whoever they like, but can't stand it when someone rightly objects to it. God complex.

[joeysteele]

I have checked this aout again and there are wrong figures in my post above, it is up to 14% will be deducted from Housing benefit if you have one bedroon vacant and up to 25% deducted from housing beneift for having 2 bedrooms vacant.
However,it will only apply to tenants who are of working age still.

I still think it is a badly thought out policy and the figures are far worse than even those Lib Dem councillors mentioned. 14% and 25% is really not acceptable in my view.

In social housing now then, I can see a good number ending up with large rent arrears and many likely evictions. The costs of dealing with such will end up being likely enormous.

[Vicky.]

Also interesting to note...I think LHA (which is what you get if you private rent) is actually higher than housing benefit for council properties. For a long time you have only been entitled to a rate equal to the amount of bedrooms you NEED. However, I had a private rented house about 4 years ago, and the LHA was about Ł75 per week for one bedroom. Ł85 for two. And I dont know the rates for a 3. I'm sure the LHA rates vary based on the area you live in too, so if you moved to a different area you would be entitled to much more LHA.

I am entitled to 2 bedrooms once I have my child.

Lets assume that I recieve full housing benefit. That would be around Ł80. It will still be Ł80 once I have my child. I could move to a private rented 2 bedroomed property and it would actually cost the government more to house me in a smaller property. So due to this move, the government might actually end up spending much more on benefits...I know they reckon the reason for these changes is to accomodate larger families, but personally I think its more about saving a bit of cash, as with all the other benefit cuts and changes If this is the motivation, I have a feeling it may bite them on the arse.


Edit. Just checked online calculator on jobcentre website

Weekly LHA rate for September 2012
Durham BRMA

Two Bedrooms Rate:
Ł88.85 per week

for where I live now (if I moved to private rented)

But if I HAD to move into private rented, obviously I would move close to work, which would be newcastle area

Weekly LHA rate for September 2012
Tyneside BRMA

Two Bedrooms Rate:
Ł103.85 per week

Government would be paying an extra Ł23 per week on average for me to move from where I am currently, if I couldnt afford the changes.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Also interesting to note...I think LHA (which is what you get if you private rent) is actually higher than housing benefit for council properties. For a long time you have only been entitled to a rate equal to the amount of bedrooms you NEED. However, I had a private rented house about 4 years ago, and the LHA was about Ł75 per week for one bedroom. Ł85 for two. And I dont know the rates for a 3. I'm sure the LHA rates vary based on the area you live in too, so if you moved to a different area you would be entitled to much more LHA.

I am entitled to 2 bedrooms once I have my child.

Lets assume that I recieve full housing benefit. That would be around Ł80. It will still be Ł80 once I have my child. I could move to a private rented 2 bedroomed property and it would actually cost the government more to house me in a smaller property. So due to this move, the government might actually end up spending much more on benefits...I know they reckon the reason for these changes is to accomodate larger families, but personally I think its more about saving a bit of cash, as with all the other benefit cuts and changes If this is the motivation, I have a feeling it may bite them on the arse.

I'm not picking something up right here... If the1 bed works out at Ł75, the 2 bed because of baby works out Ł80.... how would it cost more money to house you in smaller property....... you'd be entitled to the 2 bed house at the existing Ł80. I'm confused !

just seen your edit: is this based on 'council lets' vs private lets?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm not picking something up right here... If the1 bed works out at Ł75, the 2 bed because of baby works out Ł80.... how would it cost more money to house you in smaller property....... you'd be entitled to the 2 bed house at the existing Ł80. I'm confused !

Im comparing the council housing costs (housing benefit)to private rented(LHA)

As the council waiting lists will be so long with this move...a lot may have to go private instead. Private costs are much higher than council. LHA is a lot higher than housing benefit depending on the amount of rooms you need and the area you are in

(see my edit...I think it might make more sense that way )

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Im comparing the council housing costs (housing benefit)to private rented(LHA)

As the council waiting lists will be so long with this move...a lot may have to go private instead. Private costs are much higher than council. LHA is a lot higher than housing benefit depending on the amount of rooms you need and the area you are in

(see my edit...I think it might make more sense that way )

I caught that after your edit - and from that explanation - It makes perfect sense - and would also explain where Joey's thoughts have also come from in respect of same costs or higher.

What's the solution? Build more social / council housing of course - but where does all the money to do so, come from?

It's a difficult one - I can see why there is a need to look at these things, absolutely - - what or how a solution is reached that meets everyones expectations - is a different matter entirely.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I caught that after your edit - and from that explanation - It makes perfect sense - and would also explain where Joey's thoughts have also come from in respect of same costs or higher.

What's the solution? Build more social / council housing of course - but where does all the money to do so, come from?

It's a difficult one - I can see why there is a need to look at these things, absolutely - - what or how a solution is reached that meets everyones expectations - is a different matter entirely.

I honestly have no idea. But targetting the most vulnerable in society isnt the way to go IMO. So many of the benefit reforms have been about taking away from those who need it most, and its unfair. And IF this new tax is about saving the government money (which I suspect it is, based on previous 'changes') they will be very disappointed I think

Unless of course, when they realise they arent saving money through this they just cut LHA rates also, forcing more out onto the streets to save a bit more cash. Which I really wouldnt put past the current ones in power.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

just seen your edit: is this based on 'council lets' vs private lets?

Yup, though not the lets as such, the amount of benefit you can claim based on if you live council V private.

A lot will be forced into private, as it will have to be a quick move, something the council wont be able to do with the housing shortages. Outcome = benefit bills being even higher.

[Vicky.]

OK back on topic please. I know things like this bring out very strong opinions in people but can members please not get personal about each other. Cheers.

[arista]

Convert Bedrooms into Art Studio or Living Room2


And have just 1 working bedroom.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by arista

Convert Bedrooms into Art Studio or Living Room2


And have just 1 working bedroom.

That's a great idea, Arista!

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

That's a great idea, Arista!

Yes remove spare beds
Convert into a 2nd Living Room


2nd living room can be for non TV
for when mates pop round etc.


They can not touch you.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes remove spare beds
Convert into a 2nd Living Room


2nd living room can be for non TV
for when mates pop round etc.


They can not touch you.

Spread the word Arista.

[arista]

"Spare rooms could be used to generate some form of income"


Or become your Living Room 2
or Art Studio.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by arista

"Spare rooms could be used to generate some form of income"


Or become your Living Room 2
or Art Studio.

Or an office for those who are homeworkers .... good point Arista.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Or an office for those who are homeworkers .... good point Arista.

Yes a 2nd Living Room
can be used for many things.


Make sure any 2nd spare beds are removed etc.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes a 2nd Living Room
can be used for many things.


Make sure any 2nd spare beds are removed etc.

I see where you are coming from.... it does specifically refer to BEDROOM - and that's a word used continually throughout.

[arista]

Don't Let The System Get To you.