[Redway]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is your evidence to support your theory that culture is not a factor?
You can't quote your own personal statements and opinion as facts.

I don't usually agree with you but it seems you're right here.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Salman!

All that makes InOne look is even more stupid there is no cultural or religious factors influencing these crimes and that is absolute 100% fact. Pedophilia is pedophilia has dear old InOne completely ignored the Jimmy Savile case?

I'd say culture and religion play a big part in these crimes, as Asian culture views females as sexual beings at a far younger age than the Western world.

[Me. I Am Salman]

how on earth do terrorist attacks relate to this people may use religion to justify their crimes, doesn't mean it's true.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Salman!

how on earth do terrorist attacks relate to this people may use religion to justify their crimes, doesn't mean it's true.

They don't but I was trying to convey that many people do use religion to justify their crimes, regardless of the context. I'm not saying it's true in this case but I'm not saying it's false either. No further information has been released about it, so there's no need for anyone to jump to conclusions.

It's probably best to just forget this whole thing and get back to discussing the topic at hand.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21059681

A 12-year-old girl who was repeatedly raped by a group of men was also made to have a back-room abortion after falling pregnant, a court has heard.

She is one of six alleged victims of nine men accused of grooming children and exploiting them for sex in Oxford.

She was also "branded" with the initial of a man who claimed to "own her".

The men deny 51 charges including rape, arranging child prostitution and trafficking relating to girls aged between 11 and 15 from 2004 to 2012.

Jurors at the Old Bailey heard the victim, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, was "sold" to Mohammed Karrar when she had just turned 11 to "cure her bad attitude".

Noel Lucas QC, prosecuting, said he then groomed her for sexual activity, giving her alcohol and drugs.

Both he and his brother, Bassam Karrar, repeatedly raped the girl and arranged for her to be raped by other men in a way she described as "torture", the court heard.

Mr Lucas said that on one occasion Mohammed Karrar heated a hair pin with a lighter and branded the girl with the letter M on her buttock to show she belonged to him.

When she became pregnant, aged 12, he arranged for her to have an illegal abortion in a back-room in Reading.

Mr Lucas told jurors: "This brief summary of the very extensive and persistent abuse [she] suffered at the hands of Mohammed Karrar illustrates his view of her as something to be used and abused at will.

"He regarded her as his property. He showed her no regard.

"He felt he was entitled to have sex with her when he wanted and in whatever manner he wanted.

"If she had the courage to resist, he beat her. He branded her to make her his property and to ensure others knew it."

The court heard Mr Karrar would charge men between £400 and £600 to use the girl.

Burning, branding, torture and abortion on Day 1 .....

How bad is this trial going to get .....

[cobdo]

Could you just imagime the outcry if it were a gang of white blokes preying on young Asian girls???

[Redway]

Originally Posted by cobdo

Could you just imagime the outcry if it were a gang of white blokes preying on young Asian girls???

Could you stop doing this? It's sickening for all involved and I don't see the merit in turning a very serious discussion into a race discussion - again. Give it a rest.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Redway

Could you stop doing this? It's sickening for all involved and I don't see the merit in turning a very serious discussion into a race discussion - again. Give it a rest.

It is a race discussion though really. All these cases in the North and now this one involve men of Pakistani decent. It can't be all just one big coincidence, there's something seriously wrong within that community. Did you see that doc about it a few months back? Even their own commuinity leaders said the race aspect is something that needs to be addressed.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by InOne

It is a race discussion though really. All these cases in the North and now this one involve men of Pakistani decent. It can't be all just one big coincidence, there's something seriously wrong within that community. Did you see that doc about it a few months back? Even their own commuinity leaders said the race aspect is something that needs to be addressed.

I understand, but that poster was trying to create the situation where it seems to be non-whites who get off easier than white people, which is absolute bollocks - it's probably the complete opposite of that.

I agree that the Asian community (non-oriental) has serious problems with this sort of thing.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by InOne

It is a race discussion though really. All these cases in the North and now this one involve men of Pakistani decent. It can't be all just one big coincidence, there's something seriously wrong within that community. Did you see that doc about it a few months back? Even their own commuinity leaders said the race aspect is something that needs to be addressed.

Are you a media puppet? The only reason why all these cases in the news involve Asian men is because it's what the media chooses to report. BBC Question Time reported last year that 95% of pedophiles in prison are in fact white. And the biggest pedophilia case right now involves a white man. Are you going to bring up race now? Of course you won't

Also stop saying 'race' it's an incredibly stupid word.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Are you a media puppet? The only reason why all these cases in the news involve Asian men is because it's what the media chooses to report. BBC Question Time reported last year that 95% of pedophiles in prison are in fact white. And the biggest pedophilia case right now involves a white man. Are you going to bring up race now? Of course you won't

Also stop saying 'race' it's an incredibly stupid word.

That's right, blame it all on the white man Classic deflection.

[Kizzy]

I usually am...

[Kizzy]

The truth about 'Asian sex gangs' (Guardian)

''At present, the closest we have to a national estimate comes from CEOP's 2011 scoping study into "localised grooming", roughly synonymous with on-street grooming. Response rates to the researchers request for data from police, children's services and the third sector, were low. Based on these patchy data, CEOP suggest there are over 2,000 "potential offenders" in the UK. Most of these, however, will never have been formally identified, let alone arrested, charged or prosecuted. Ethnicity data were available for just one-third. Of these, 49% were white and 46% Asian: the proportion of Pakistani Asians remains unknown. However, in a country where Asians constitute 7% of the general population, this is a striking figure.

We believe that there are two main profiles of the on-street groomer. First, we have the white offenders, who typically offend alone. So far, nothing new: the lone white male is the norm for UK child sex offences. Second, however, there are Asian offenders, many of whom are of Pakistani origin. They seem much more likely to offend in groups, lending their abuse a curiously social dimension. In our research, which focuses on large offending groups, we analysed police data from five major on-street grooming investigations. Of the 52 suspects charged, 83% were Asian Pakistani, 11% Asian other and 6% white British. These are shocking statistics and the over-representation of Asian offenders within this dataset certainly merits attention. There may be important factors that explain why the bigger networks have been largely Asian''

[Redway]

Exactly. So it isn't the media being biased and only showing cases of Asians but reporting what it is. There's no room for discussion, even if you don't like what's being said. You don't get to toy with statistics.

[InOne]

not worth it

[Me. I Am Salman]

my god i really don't care

[Redway]

Then stop debating. It's clear that the Pakistani community has serious problems with their men coming over here to rape young girls. It's there for you in black and white. End of.

Stop trying to defend it and accept reality.

[Kizzy]

It does have cultural connotations theres no getting away from it unfortunately.
I think the media have done their best to play it down in the interests of community cohesion.

[Omah]

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/101...ll_of_threats/

The trial did not sit yesterday and will resume on Monday.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21125565

A 14-year-old girl was told she would be shot if she did not obey a man she then had sex with in a park, a court has heard.

The girl is one of six alleged victims of nine men accused of grooming and exploiting children in Oxford.

She described being taken to parks and flats where she was given drugs and alcohol and had sex with men.

The men deny 51 charges, including rape and trafficking, relating to girls aged between 11 and 15 from 2004 to 2012.

The alleged victim told jurors at the Old Bailey she was living in a childrens' home when she was 14.

She said she would run away with a friend to meet a group of Asian men in Oxford that she knew as K-Dog, Jammy, Khan and Acter.

The jury heard the men were nice to the girl at first but later became "demanding" and "threatening".

When asked why she did it the girl said: "I felt I didn't have a choice".

On one occasion the jury heard she had been drinking in a field with one of the men.

She told the court: "He started pulling his zip down on his trousers.

"He said that if I didn't do as I was told he knew someone that would shoot me."

The court heard she would be taken to places where other men would have sex with her.

Jurors were told that in August 2006 she went to a flat with a friend. The friend left and 11 men arrived.

The alleged victim said she went to the bedroom and had sex with a man who is not before the court.

She told jurors the man said he was going to "bring another man in", adding: "They told me if they ask, to say I was 16."

The court heard the girl thought she was going to have to have sex with all 11 men so she tried to jump out of the window, but it was too small.

Instead she called police, but the next day withdrew her statement.

She told the jury: "I was scared and I didn't want any trouble."

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21199674

An alleged victim of a child sex ring told police she was "treated like a piece of meat", a court has heard.

Jurors at the Old Bailey were shown a video recording of an interview the girl, then aged 15, gave to police in 2006.

She is one of six alleged victims of nine men accused of grooming and exploiting children in Oxford.

The men, from Oxford and Berkshire, deny 51 counts relating to girls aged between 11 and 15 from 2004 to 2012.

The girl also said she was made to "feel like a piece of dirt" by the men she claims sexually abused her.

She described how she was made to have sex with a man in a park in Oxford, which made her "hate" herself.

More later .....

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21199674

An alleged victim of a child sex ring told police she was "treated like a piece of meat", a court has heard.

Old Bailey jurors saw a video of an interview the girl, then aged 15, gave to police in 2006. She also said: "I know they are doing it to other girls."

The court heard the girl, who was living in a children's home at the time, went to South Park with a group of Asian men and after a while was left with two of them.

She described how she was given alcohol and made to give the men oral sex.

She told police: "They kept saying horrible things to me, really degrading, that make me feel like a piece of dirt.

"In the end I thought it would be easier to just do it to shut them up."

Jurors were told the next day the alleged victim was made to have sex with a man in another park.

She said when she tried to refuse he told her he was getting angry, adding: "You are not going to like it when I get angry so just make sure you make me happy."

The court heard he bent her fingers back to the point she thought they were going to break before she agreed to have sex with him.

The alleged victim said if she refused to have sex with the men they would also threaten to hurt her family.

"They said they would burn my brother alive," she said.

'Given gifts'

When asked by police how having sex made her feel she said: "I just hated myself, I just felt disgusted at myself, and thought why am I doing it? Why is he doing it? He knows how old I am.

"I know they are doing it to other girls as well. I see them doing it. Little girls in school uniforms."

The court heard the girl reported her alleged abuse to police so the men would no longer have control of her life.

"I do not think anyone should have to live like that," she told police.

She told the court she and a friend would play truant from school when she was about 13 to meet the men, who were nice to her at first.

She said they gave her gifts which she described as "trinkets".

"It made me feel like I was kind of important," she told the jury.

The court heard she felt as though she "owed" the men because they had also given her alcohol and drugs.

"It was always at the back of my mind that I was to keep them happy," she said

The case continues .....

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21230638

An alleged victim of a child sex ring would return home with bruises and cigarette burns on her, a court has heard.

Old Bailey jurors were told the girl was taken to houses and flats in Oxford to have sex with men.

She is one of six alleged victims of nine men accused of grooming and exploiting children in the city.

The men, from Oxford and Berkshire, deny 51 counts relating to girls aged between 11 and 15 from 2004 to 2012.

The woman, who was a teenager at the time, told the court she was expected to have sex with up to five men a night, from places including Bradford, Slough and London.

She described the alleged incidents as "parties" and said she was given drugs and alcohol.

"I think it had already been predetermined that there would be a sexual element to the evening," she told the court.

"It seemed like they would encourage each other to take a little bit of what's on offer, that's how it felt.

"I would be pretty out of it by the end of it."

The witness described how she would be away from home for up to to eight days at a time at various properties including some in the Cowley Road area which were often "dilapidated, grotty places".

She said she was taken there by defendants Kamar Jamil, Anjum Dogar and Akhtar Dogar.

The jury heard sometimes the men would get "physically rough" with her.

She said she would return home bruised and sometimes with cigarette burns on her.

The court heard she also lost a substantial amount of weight, and her bones could be seen through her skin as she would not be given food.

On one occasion police took her home after she had been reported missing and her trousers had blood on them, the jury was told.

"A lot of it is a lost part of my life," she told the jury.

Yeah, a childhood lost .....

[Omah]

10:00am Saturday 2nd February 2013

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/bullfinc...trial_is_told/

A YOUNG woman said it had been “painful” giving evidence at the Oxford child prostitution ring trial, but did it as she felt she was “finally being believed”.

The witness, known as Girl 1, overcame illness to take the stand and finish her evidence after six days at the Old Bailey.

She claims she was raped and sold for sex by Kamar Jamil and brothers Akhtar and Anjum Dogar, between 2004 when she was 12, and 2007 when she was 15.

Earlier, the court heard the witness had sex encounters with “hundreds”.

Prosecutor Noel Lucas asked her why she had decided to give evidence after speaking to police last year.

She said: “In all these years when I’ve dealt with many, many professionals, it was the first time I felt I was being believed and the first time someone was going to do something about what had been going on in Oxford for a long, long time.

“An issue I believe may have been covered up, well not covered up but people were not doing their jobs properly and reading between the lines, and many, many people I think have suffered this kind of abuse.

“I decided to go ahead with it because I felt like I was finally being believed about what was happening to me “I want to see justice.

“Some pretty awful things happened to me in my childhood.

“At the time I didn’t feel anyone would believe me and nothing was done about it. There was a lot of self doubt.

“I wanted to see the people who did that to me, and potentially other people, punished for it.”

She told the jury she had found it “difficult” to give evidence and recollect what had happened.

It must be awful for her having to recall hundreds of "rapes" that she'd rather to forget .....

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21327597

The mother of an alleged victim of a child sex ring has told a court her daughter would cut herself with razor blades to "take the hurt away".

Old Bailey jurors were told how she went from a "lovely, caring child" to being guarded, angry and argumentative.

The mother, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, said when her daughter was 13 she would go missing for up to eight days at a time, returning home exhausted and "not really with it".

The woman told the court: "I said, 'What is it that is so bad that me and your dad can't help you?'

"It was very difficult. I felt that I was becoming a failing mother to my child."

Jurors have heard how her daughter met three of the defendants, Kamar Jamil, Akhtar Dogar and Anjum Dogar, in Oxford while playing truant from school.

The victim said she was abused between 2004 and 2007 when she was aged 12 to 15.

It is claimed she was given drink and drugs and made to have sex with men, including defendant Assad Hussain.

Her mother told the court her behaviour changed in a short period of time.

She added: "I was beside myself with worry. So much had been going on I couldn't make sense of. I was just so afraid for her, and I just wanted my little girl to be OK.

"There was nothing left of her, apart from aggression when we tried to question her about anything. There was no emotion left in her whatsoever.

"She didn't laugh, she certainly didn't cry. I was so desperate for her to start crying and let go. She seemed totally like a lost soul. There was nothing there at all."