[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

We agree on something! I think she has learnt from this and others who have been permabanned have been given a second chance, she never has and unlike a lot of permabans has not made multi after multi which works in her favour.

Also to use Jessica (Sorry Jess) as reference some members do change for the better. Jess used to be a massive troll and spammer on here a few years back but she has completely calmed down and now is a great member to have on here.

Yes this has been my main point when talking about this in admin tbh. The ONLY permabanned member as far as I am aware that as never made a multi, or sent loads of mails abusing us, and just accepted the ban.

I wouldn't be against stacey coming back on a kinda trial...as she was quite obnoxious back then (asides from he photo thing) but sometimes she did actually contribute to the forum, and I agree that theres a massive diference between being 15 and 18.

However, a lot of people were really creeped out by what she did. I'm not a very private person so it never bothered me really, but I know some others are. The worst thing bout the whole thing (for me anyway) was the hunting down members facebook pages and saving photos from there too, not just the meet the members thread. Her ban has just been trivialised over the years I think, and made out to be it was all about MTM...and it could be arged that people who post in MTM arent private as they put the photo there for all to see..which I kinda get. BUT, getting photos of people who have never posted in there is totally wrong.

So basically, I am both for and against her coming back, so I'm quite useless

[Benjamin]

Permambanned members have been allowed to return before.

The results are varied:

Lily for example returned from a permaban and is absolutely fine

Thomas C however was allowed to return (I still never understand why) and became an even bigger troll because he thought he could get away with more because he was allowed to return.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

Permambanned members have been allowed to return before.

The results are varied:

Lily for example returned from a permaban and is absolutely fine

Thomas C however was allowed to return (I still never understand why) and became an even bigger troll because he thought he could get away with more because he was allowed to return.

Lily is lovely.

[arista]

Its ammi's fault

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

Its ammi's fault

..no it's not Arista..asking for clarification on something which is still 'unresloved' is completely different to asking for a definite decision which has already been made to be reversed... and I think you know that, this has nothing to do with me whatsoever....

[Marc]

I don't speak on behalf of any MODs and certainly not James, but I wasn't around when Stacey was perma'ed so I don't to what extent her actions were felt by others. I would be very happy to try and arrange some new form of banning and monitoring bans.

It's something I want to discuss with the MODs and get in place but I don't dare say anything else in case I give false hope!

[Jemal]

Shes a nice girl. Wasnt here when shes got banned but when i have spoke to her shes a nice girl.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Of course she should, mods have evidence of members doing much worse than what Stacey did, as well as those members being 18+. Any mod who says no is being hypocritical & bending the rules for other members (adults) & punishing a then teenager for doing less of what others have done

[T*]

I have a visitor message with the ban post where I got banned for two years, there's a thread about stacey and about Scott and I don't even know what's going on

[Vanessa]

I wouldn't be opposed to her coming back. But i guess it's up to James.

[Pete.]

doubt she would even know if she became unbanned

[T*]

Yes, I'd like her to come back, one of my first friends on here, she did some stupid things when she was younger, but she's changed.

[Z]

To be honest, I thought Stacey's ban was completely warranted at the time - this was when TiBB was a thoroughly unpleasant place to be and Stacey openly bragging about saving photos so she could use them for blackmail just seemed like a pissing contest really, somebody showing off that they could take it further than everyone else. This was when you had Tommy and Stephanie posting Kerry's pictures (and as Kerry sadly passed away not all that long after, I don't think they should ever be allowed back - Kerry never really commented on that whole thing because I think it hurt her so much, and it would be making a mockery of her memory to let them back, even though I really liked Stephanie and I got on with Tommy), you had setanta, you had Thomas C, you had huge divides on the forum and constant fighting... it was a nasty environment.

Things have changed a lot since then. I know that Stacey's friends have remained her friends over the years and that you all still speak to her regularly, I'm not sure where you keep in touch but to Stacey's absolute credit she has not trolled TiBB with multiple accounts, she has not done anything in retribution for being banned, she just really seems to want to be unbanned so she can return to posting on the forum.

I'm not sure if I forgive the stuff she was writing on Formspring about and to TiBB members (comments about Twilight and Shaun seem to stick out in my memory) but she was 15 years old then. Ultimately her ban didn't affect me either way - I didn't have a problem with her and I didn't have a problem with her ban. I don't think, if she returned, she would be like Thomas C or Scott, I think she would just relish being back here and be sensible about it.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

I'm not sure if I forgive the stuff she was writing on Formspring about and to TiBB members (comments about Twilight and Shaun seem to stick out in my memory) but she was 15 years old then. Ultimately her ban didn't affect me either way - I didn't have a problem with her and I didn't have a problem with her ban. I don't think, if she returned, she would be like Thomas C or Scott, I think she would just relish being back here and be sensible about it.

She has the very same attitude and she is not afraid to speak in her usual derogative manner, her personality is toxic and she shouldn't get the satisfaction of being rewarded with access to TiBB again. I don't mean this personally, I am just speaking my recent surprising altercation with her, which I didn't take personally in the slightest, I have long moved on from all of that. But I have to say I disagree with you.

Also, as far as I know, Stephanie didn't save any of the pictures, but she admitted to making a fake email address.

[MeMyselfAndI]

So... You're not allowed too save pictures from MTM
But you are allowed too save pictures from MTM of pictures of members in their school uniform & then research that school uniform, find out what School that member goes too, contact the school about that member & then contact that members cousin's & sibling's.

Oh wait... That doesn't make sense

[MeMyselfAndI]

But you are allowed too save pictures from MTM of pictures of members in their school uniform & then research that school uniform, find out what School that member goes too, contact the school about that member & then contact that members cousin's & sibling's.

But Zee, the above is not even infraction worthy, so how on earth is what Stacey did even a reason to be banned if the above is completely allowed

I don't like the rules & modding inconsistencies at all, how some members can do what they like (literally) whilst others can't. It's just a fact really.

[Z]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndLeona

But Zee, the above is not even infraction worthy, so how on earth is what Stacey did even a reason to be banned if the above is completely allowed

I don't like the rules & modding inconsistencies at all, how some members can do what they like (literally) whilst others can't. It's just a fact really.

I know why it's frustrating for members when the rules don't seem to be consistent, but rather than thinking of moderators as people who simply enforce rules, think of it more as like a jury at a trial - each case is different and they have to take into account all of the factors that they know about, and they dish out the punishment according to what they think will be best for the person they're punishing and the rest of the community. Sometimes it's just a slap on the wrist, other times it's a lengthy ban in the hope that they will reform, and other times it's an indefinite or permanent ban if they don't feel that the member will learn their lesson.

Edit: Just like a jury in a trial, they have to go with the majority consensus when they make their decision. You'd be surprised how many decisions in the admin forum get debated extensively before action is taken - and that's me speaking from experiences that were over two years ago; I'm sure it's still the same today.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

I know why it's frustrating for members when the rules don't seem to be consistent, but rather than thinking of moderators as people who simply enforce rules, think of it more as like a jury at a trial - each case is different and they have to take into account all of the factors that they know about, and they dish out the punishment according to what they think will be best for the person they're punishing and the rest of the community. Sometimes it's just a slap on the wrist, other times it's a lengthy ban in the hope that they will reform, and other times it's an indefinite or permanent ban if they don't feel that the member will learn their lesson.

Edit: Just like a jury in a trial, they have to go with the majority consensus when they make their decision. You'd be surprised how many decisions in the admin forum get debated extensively before action is taken - and that's me speaking from experiences that were over two years ago; I'm sure it's still the same today.

It is, I dont think there has ever been a unanimous decision made, on anything. We argue between ourselves so much when it comes to punishments and stuff. But there is no way to do it really except for going wih the majority decision (be that 7/1 or 4/3) or admin stepping in and making the decision for us :S

[James]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

Since we're allowed polls on the razzies and threads about Scotts ban it's only fair Stacey should be allowed to be discussed openly

For people who don't know what happened with Stacey she was caught admitting to saving photos out of Meet The Members and was given a permaban for it. She was only 15 at the time and has been banned for coming up 3 years now, she's not only learnt from her mistake but also grown up since then. There's been other cases of members admitting to saving photos and even using photos to find and contact members family and friends which is above and beyond anything Stacey ever did yet no punishment was ever given to those people. On top of that there have been permabanned members in the past who have been allowed a second chance on the forum (Scott included)

so do you think it's fair that Stacey should still be punished and not given a chance to prove she's changed since then?

(I know the result of the poll alone isn't going to get her unbanned but it could atleast wake admin up and make them release they don't know EVERYTHING that's best for the forum and the members opinions should be valued too)

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndLeona

But Zee, the above is not even infraction worthy, so how on earth is what Stacey did even a reason to be banned if the above is completely allowed

I don't like the rules & modding inconsistencies at all, how some members can do what they like (literally) whilst others can't. It's just a fact really.

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndLeona

So... You're not allowed too save pictures from MTM
But you are allowed too save pictures from MTM of pictures of members in their school uniform & then research that school uniform, find out what School that member goes too, contact the school about that member & then contact that members cousin's & sibling's.

Oh wait... That doesn't make sense

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndLeona

If you're good friends with a load of mods you won't get punished, thats my theory tbh

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndLeona

Of course she should, mods have evidence of members doing much worse than what Stacey did, as well as those members being 18+. Any mod who says no is being hypocritical & bending the rules for other members (adults) & punishing a then teenager for doing less of what others have done

I wish you would stop, on here and elsewhere, misrepresenting staff decisions, and stop making these half-baked comparisons. As usual you only give half the story.

The comparison you make with the other situation is way off. That was provoked to some extent by someone lying about his identity to the whole forum, using a fake picture, and even, from what has been reported, planning to meet someone. In my opinion those facts mitigate what the other person (I am told) did, as stupid as it was.

What Stacey did was more than just saving pictures posted on the forum as the quoted posts above claim - she had a folder for virtually every active member on the forum, which the forum found out about when she then shared a screenshot with someone else. Not just one or two pictures taken from the Meet the Members thread on this forum, but pictures taken from members' social networking and image account profiles - of people who have never posted pictures on the forum or put a link up to their Facebook or other profiles - and also saved images from group webcam chats.

It was a big invasion of privacy. It involved lots of people - even ones have been on the site from way back and never get into dramas or involved in cliques or anything like that.

How can she be unbanned when so many people were creeped out by it? Even people who were active on the forum then but aren't now - what if they returned and saw that she was back posting. What kind of message does that send out?

Some of you don't seem to understand the harm stuff like this can cause to people.

And I don't understand why this should be subject to a forum poll. A lot of people on here now weren't on the forum when she got banned, or wouldn't have been aware of what happened.

The other point people seem to be perpetuating is that members are getting banned for one incident when in fact there has been an accumulation of incidents, and have been causing lots of trouble and never seem to change.

I'll leave this topic open for a little while longer if anyone wants to respond, and then close it again and delete it, as these topics always result in more division and drama being caused.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by James

I wish you would stop, on here and elsewhere, misrepresenting staff decisions, and stop making these half-baked comparisons. As usual you only give half the story.

The comparison you make with the other situation is way off. That was provoked to some extent by someone lying about his identity to the whole forum, using a fake picture, and even, from what has been reported, planning to meet someone. In my opinion those facts mitigate what the other person (I am told) did, as stupid as it was.

What Stacey did was more than just saving pictures posted on the forum as the quoted posts above claim - she had a folder for virtually every active member on the forum, which the forum found out about when she then shared a screenshot with someone else. Not just one or two pictures taken from the Meet the Members thread on this forum, but pictures taken from members' social networking and image account profiles - of people who have never posted pictures on the forum or put a link up to their Facebook or other profiles - and also saved images from group webcam chats.

It was a big invasion of privacy. It involved lots of people - even ones have been on the site from way back and never get into dramas or involved in cliques or anything like that.

How can she be unbanned when so many people were creeped out by it? Even people who were active on the forum then but aren't now - what if they returned and saw that she was back posting. What kind of message does that send out?

Some of you don't seem to understand the harm stuff like this can cause to people.

And I don't understand why this should be subject to a forum poll. A lot of people on here now weren't on the forum when she got banned, or wouldn't have been aware of what happened.

The other point people seem to be perpetuating is that members are getting banned for one incident when in fact there has been an accumulation of incidents, and have been causing lots of trouble and never seem to change.

I'll leave this topic open for a little while longer if anyone wants to respond, and then close it again and delete it, as these topics always result in more division and drama being caused.

Thank you for the clarification.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by James

I wish you would stop, on here and elsewhere, misrepresenting staff decisions, and stop making these half-baked comparisons. As usual you only give half the story.

The comparison you make with the other situation is way off. That was provoked to some extent by someone lying about his identity to the whole forum, using a fake picture, and even, from what has been reported, planning to meet someone. In my opinion those facts mitigate what the other person (I am told) did, as stupid as it was.

What Stacey did was more than just saving pictures posted on the forum as the quoted posts above claim - she had a folder for virtually every active member on the forum, which the forum found out about when she then shared a screenshot with someone else. Not just one or two pictures taken from the Meet the Members thread on this forum, but pictures taken from members' social networking and image account profiles - of people who have never posted pictures on the forum or put a link up to their Facebook or other profiles - and also saved images from group webcam chats.

It was a big invasion of privacy. It involved lots of people - even ones have been on the site from way back and never get into dramas or involved in cliques or anything like that.

How can she be unbanned when so many people were creeped out by it? Even people who were active on the forum then but aren't now - what if they returned and saw that she was back posting. What kind of message does that send out?

Some of you don't seem to understand the harm stuff like this can cause to people.

And I don't understand why this should be subject to a forum poll. A lot of people on here now weren't on the forum when she got banned, or wouldn't have been aware of what happened.

The other point people seem to be perpetuating is that members are getting banned for one incident when in fact there has been an accumulation of incidents, and have been causing lots of trouble and never seem to change.

I'll leave this topic open for a little while longer if anyone wants to respond, and then close it again and delete it, as these topics always result in more division and drama being caused.

I'm not disputing what she did wasn't creepy and ban worthy at all because it was. But I'm looking at this now 3 years on and she isn't an immature 15 year old anymore, she isn't going to come back insulting people and saving photos again because she's learnt from her mistake and suffered because of the ban. It seems unfair that many have been given second chances or trial periods to redeem themselves yet this isn't an option for Stacey even after all this time.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

I'm not disputing what she did wasn't creepy and ban worthy at all because it was. But I'm looking at this now 3 years on and she isn't an immature 15 year old anymore, she isn't going to come back insulting people and saving photos again because she's learnt from her mistake and suffered because of the ban. It seems unfair that many have been given second chances or trial periods to redeem themselves yet this isn't an option for Stacey even after all this time.

I think the only people who've ever been permanently banned and been given a second chance were lily, who came back without a fuss, and Thomas C, who spectacularly blew up as most of the forum expected he would. Thomas ruined it for everyone else, essentially, he should never have been allowed back. Comparing Stacey to the circumstances of other people, as I said to you earlier, isn't helping her cause out whatsoever.

[Pete.]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

I'm not disputing what she did wasn't creepy and ban worthy at all because it was. But I'm looking at this now 3 years on and she isn't an immature 15 year old anymore, she isn't going to come back insulting people and saving photos again because she's learnt from her mistake and suffered because of the ban. It seems unfair that many have been given second chances or trial periods to redeem themselves yet this isn't an option for Stacey even after all this time.

No one can be too careful tbh - I don't think she should come back and I agree with this permaban

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by James

I wish you would stop, on here and elsewhere, misrepresenting staff decisions, and stop making these half-baked comparisons. As usual you only give half the story.

The comparison you make with the other situation is way off. That was provoked to some extent by someone lying about his identity to the whole forum, using a fake picture, and even, from what has been reported, planning to meet someone. In my opinion those facts mitigate what the other person (I am told) did, as stupid as it was

Um excuse me, you seem to forget that the person posted a picture of me a few weeks back that I don't have access to anymore (meaning it was saved) and made an edit on it which mocked me. What provoked that when I wasn't even arguing with anyone in that thread? These people are cyber bullies and nothing else.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Um excuse me, you seem to forget that the person posted picture of me a few weeks back that I don't have access to anymore and mocked me. What provoked that when I wasn't even arguing with anyone in that thread? These people need to be seen for what they are, vile Internet bullies

Salman, you should know that admin know best, even if they use the forum once a month