[Cherie]

Crazy, we have never seen Sam in the DR not to mind anything else and she is top 2, shame really.

[Northern Monkey]

I actually don't mind Luisa sometimes,Think she is very misguided though.She is the main one that dishes it out but cries when she gets it back.She acts all "I'm a strong woman" when she wants to try and hurt someone but then plays on her femeninity and cries when she can't take it.That's how she works.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I actually don't mind Luisa sometimes,Think she is very misguided though.She is the main one that dishes it out but cries when she gets it back.She acts all "I'm a strong woman" when she wants to try and hurt someone but then plays on her femeninity and cries when she can't take it.That's how she works.

This

[joeysteele]

Luisa claims to be intelligent but she cannot work out that Jim clearly is popular with the viewers after all this time in the house.

As Vanessa says, the more that she and Linda get at Jim the more the viewers who vote get behind him.
Now I can fully get how Linda cannot work that out because she is just a nasty,bitter and twisted person with an inability to think and work that out.
However Luisa,if she really is as clever as she says she is will only keep pushing the self destruct button if she doesn't hold back a bit at least.

Luisa doesn't have to like Jim but she also doesn't have to go on and on about him like Linda does,I also do think she has a problem with older men too in an ageist sense.

[MarcusMel]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Luisa claims to be intelligent but she cannot work out that Jim clearly is popular with the viewers after all this time in the house.

As Vanessa says, the more that she and Linda get at Jim the more the viewers who vote get behind him.
Now I can fully get how Linda cannot work that out because she is just a nasty,bitter and twisted person with an inability to think and work that out.
However Luisa,if she really is as clever as she says she is will only keep pushing the self destruct button if she doesn't hold back a bit at least.

Luisa doesn't have to like Jim but she also doesn't have to go on and on about him like Linda does,I also do think she has a problem with older men too in an ageist sense.

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

Wow... as one of our most intelligent posters, I'd be shocked if there was something going in the house that joey doesn't understand.

Of course Luisa wants to win. Her main problem is that she fervently believes in free speech and in speaking her mind. Sadly, she doesn't uphold that right for Jim or for anyone else.

[MarcusMel]

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow... as one of our most intelligent posters, I'd be shocked if there was something going in the house that joey doesn't understand.

Of course Luisa wants to win. Her main problem is that she fervently believes in free speech and in speaking her mind. Sadly, she doesn't uphold that right for Jim or for anyone else.

There is a difference between wanting, trying, and caring.

We use words like 'must', 'should', 'have' to indicate how important a goal is. The word 'like' is about the lowest level of emotional desire for wanting something. What I am saying is that the reasoning in Joey’s post is based on a level of emotional desire to win BB that Luisa is not displaying. The evidence is clear from the way in which she handles emotionally the eviction crowd noise.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

they hate him because they cant control him , simple and theyre jealous of his talent and fame

[anne666]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

This. Jim's a coward, can't confront anyone in an adult manner and a control freak. He's either victim or aggressor. Passive aggressive. If he has time left in his life to grow up, he may find himself somewhere in the healthy middle. He's chauvinistic and sexist, women are his preferred target. He's not brave enough to do the same to men.
At least ,for the only time I've seen, he apologised to Linda Nolan and accepted responsibilty for actions. Although his motivation may have been more about survival.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

I think you have missed the whole point,(with full respect), that I was getting at.

First off, she claims to be intelligent, then working out the best strategy to use in a situation you find yourself in would demonstrate that.
I never said she had to or should like Jim, however to go on about him,even when there is no connection as to interaction or conversation between the 2 of them shows a rather strange obsessions of sorts and indeed lack of strategy.

All she has to do is pull back, have as little to do with him as she needs to and both get on with enjoying the BB experience.
My point is that Jim is clearly popular with the viewers who vote,therefore to keep getting at him, she is going to likely continue to pull her own standing with the viewers down further.

That seems a daft thing to do,in my opinion, for whether she wants to win BB or even for to have an easier and less stressful time in the house she is going the wrong way about it,in my view.
I don't believe a single housemate in there didn't want to try to win it,I don't go for that at all.
Also in Luisa's case, she is a fiercely competitive woman,that she showed heavily on the Apprentice, and after losing out in the Apprentice,I doubt in reality that she would not want to win this series if she could.

When other than at mealtimes and the tasks, is there any reason for her to really interact with Jim, just pull back.
Everytime she gets at him or puts him down to and with others, she gives him airtime and draws attention to him,the end result of which is she has a lower standing with the viewers who vote and he has a much higher one.

I don't believe for one second she would like to see Jim win, however she is doing a really good job, in all truth, of likely doing a great deal as to helping him achieve that.
If as you say, she doesn't want to win or is not bothered about winning, are you also saying she wouldn't care if Jim were to win.
I myself, from my perspective of watching her, believe she would hate that result and my point was that despite being so intelligent she fails to see that is exactly what her actions towards him could well help bring about.

I am not bothered as to the boos to her from the crowd, they mean little, they cheered Lionel on friday and he went out in last place.
She will I am sure as I can be,(as Jim has), worked out the crowd are not representative of a lot of the standings as to BB housemates.
The one thing staring her in the face however, is the fact that she is regularly a housemate always in danger of going as to evictions and Jim is a certain one to well saved,more than likely the current top of the voting too.

Are you actually saying you believe she wants that scenario,really.
I myself would doubt she does want that scenario and I also believe she would love to win it.
I'd go further and say I believe she could even think she should win it.

She is a very ambitious lady,nothing wrong in that,however her judgement in the house, (as was on the Apprentice too), seems to leave a fair bit to be desired,again all just my opinion.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think you have missed the whole point,(with full respect), that I was getting at.

First off, she claims to be intelligent, then working out the best strategy to use in a situation you find yourself in would demonstrate that.
I never said she had to or should like Jim, however to go on about him,even when there is no connection as to interaction or conversation between the 2 of them shows a rather strange obsessions of sorts and indeed lack of strategy.

All she has to do is pull back, have as little to do with him as she needs to and both get on with enjoying the BB experience.
My point is that Jim is clearly popular with the viewers who vote,therefore to keep getting at him, she is going to likely continue to pull her own standing with the viewers down further.

That seems a daft thing to do,in my opinion, for whether she wants to win BB or even for to have an easier and less stressful time in the house she is going the wrong way about it,in my view.
I don't believe a single housemate in there didn't want to try to win it,I don't go for that at all.
Also in Luisa's case, she is a fiercely competitive woman,that she showed heavily on the Apprentice, and after losing out in the Apprentice,I doubt in reality that she would not want to win this series if she could.

When other than at mealtimes and the tasks, is there any reason for her to really interact with Jim, just pull back.
Everytime she gets at him or puts him down to and with others, she gives him airtime and draws attention to him,the end result of which is she has a lower standing with the viewers who vote and he has a much higher one.

I don't believe for one second she would like to see Jim win, however she is doing a really good job, in all truth, of likely doing a great deal as to helping him achieve that.
If as you say, she doesn't want to win or is not bothered about winning, are you also saying she wouldn't care if Jim were to win.
I myself, from my perspective of watching her, believe she would hate that result and my point was that despite being so intelligent she fails to see that is exactly what her actions towards him could well help bring about.

I am not bothered as to the boos to her from the crowd, they mean little, they cheered Lionel on friday and he went out in last place.
She will I am sure as I can be,(as Jim has), worked out the crowd are not representative of a lot of the standings as to BB housemates.
The one thing staring her in the face however, is the fact that she is regularly a housemate always in danger of going as to evictions and Jim is a certain one to well saved,more than likely the current top of the voting too.

Are you actually saying you believe she wants that scenario,really.
I myself would doubt she does want that scenario and I also believe she would love to win it.
I'd go further and say I believe she could even think she should win it.

She is a very ambitious lady,nothing wrong in that,however her judgement in the house, (as was on the Apprentice too), seems to leave a fair bit to be desired,again all just my opinion.

In short she is a horror of a human being. you just cant get away from that.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

In short she is a horror of a human being. you just cant get away from that.

Hi the truth, where have you been lately, good to have you back and I mean that.

I may step back from describing her a horror, my point really is that for being highly competitive and intelliegent,she hasn't demonstrated much of either in a positive way in the house so far.

[MarcusMel]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think you have missed the whole point,(with full respect), that I was getting at.

...snip (see full quote above) ....

all just my opinion.

Here are my thoughts with respect to your way of seeing the world.
Out of curiosity do you think like this in your workplace? I am not capable of seeing things as a game to play with other people. No need to answer this question it sort of frightens me if people do.

1) Claims of intelligence. My question, what is real intelligence? The concept is ill defined in the first place and has evolved into social, spatial, emotional, mathematical, logical, factual areas to try and pin the concept down. Generally it tends to mean 'my imagination with reasoning shows me how to cope with this'.

2) The strategy you suggest if not natural to a person in 24/7 less sleep time would be difficult to implement and BB can show any accidents that oppose such a strategy

3) If you do start doing things that are not natural to your personality then the shouts of fake, and game player are always watched for and seem to be automatically assumed by many forum posters even when people with empathetic understanding demonstrate the opposite. So being yourself or playing a social strategy is going to be a no-win on either route.

4) Winning the series how? From 3 either tactic is not going to work in your favour. Generally the 'nice' people mostly males win. Emotional projection to others also tends to win.

5) She has no control of the scenarios that may occur inside or outside of the house. BB are in control, not the public. Though this seems to be the first time they are being fair to public in presentation. Twitter is still doing its 'We are funny by writing condescendingly'

Which leaves Luisa with the only attitude available 'to be myself and do the best I can with the situation created' which could mean doing the occasional emotional dump to an ear that listens.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Here are my thoughts with respect to your way of seeing the world.
Out of curiosity do you think like this in your workplace? I am not capable of seeing things as a game to play with other people. No need to answer this question it sort of frightens me if people do.

1) Claims of intelligence. My question, what is real intelligence? The concept is ill defined in the first place and has evolved into social, spatial, emotional, mathematical, logical, factual areas to try and pin the concept down. Generally it tends to mean 'my imagination with reasoning shows me how to cope with this'.

2) The strategy you suggest if not natural to a person in 24/7 less sleep time would be difficult to implement and BB can show any accidents that oppose such a strategy

3) If you do start doing things that are not natural to your personality then the shouts of fake, and game player are always watched for and seem to be automatically assumed by many forum posters even when people with empathetic understanding demonstrate the opposite. So being yourself or playing a social strategy is going to be a no-win on either route.

4) Winning the series how? From 3 either tactic is not going to work in your favour. Generally the 'nice' people mostly males win. Emotional projection to others also tends to win.

5) She has no control of the scenarios that may occur inside or outside of the house. BB are in control, not the public. Though this seems to be the first time they are being fair to public in presentation. Twitter is still doing its 'We are funny by writing condescendingly'

Which leaves Luisa with the only attitude available 'to be myself and do the best I can with the situation created' which could mean doing the occasional emotional dump to an ear that listens.

All of that makes sense to me and I have always said the house is a very different place.

You didn't however answer me as to do you really think Luisa doesn't want to win this and also do you think she would want Jim to win it.

We look at her from differing perspectives, I don't believe she wouldn't want to win it and also don't believe she would like Jim to win.
So to avoid that she needs to follow a strategy and the way I see it as to her, she would be better pulling back from getting at Jim for both of those scenarios,for her to have any chance to win or to stop Jim winning

Your post above is equally valid in a different way.
However look, she claims she is intelligent,not my words, she had to adopt strategic skills to get as far as she did in the Apprentice but then fell at the last hurdle in that.
All I am saying is she must be able to see how her getting at Jim, is in fact only strengthening his position and weakening hers.
From her time on the Apprentice,I am amazed she seems so far away from realising that.

She can counteract just about all thrown at her in the house by any housemate, that is down to her skills,whether negative or positive ones as to the execution of those skills.
With Jim she has dropped her guard and is failing to make any impression,on him and the viewers who vote.

I see completely where you have arrived at your perpective above, it would seem to me however you in part base that on a view that she doesn't want to win CBB.
My perspective comes from believing she does want to win it,or more to the point if she doesn't want Jim to.
Then whichever may be right she is going the whole wrong way around things,in my opinion and that's all I can express.

[Sophiee]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Luisa claims to be intelligent but she cannot work out that Jim clearly is popular with the viewers after all this time in the house.

As Vanessa says, the more that she and Linda get at Jim the more the viewers who vote get behind him.
Now I can fully get how Linda cannot work that out because she is just a nasty,bitter and twisted person with an inability to think and work that out.
However Luisa,if she really is as clever as she says she is will only keep pushing the self destruct button if she doesn't hold back a bit at least.

Luisa doesn't have to like Jim but she also doesn't have to go on and on about him like Linda does,I also do think she has a problem with older men too in an ageist sense.

luisa is aware that jim is popular. when has she ever said differently? she was sure he was going to top the votes when she was up alongside him, liz and jasmine. just because she doesn't suck up to him doesn't mean she doesn't know he's popular, she's very aware and it makes her real and genuine not to try and befriend him. her views have stayed the same despite his popularity and that's admirable.

[arista]

She can not Take It

[GiRTh]

Two bitter old harpies.

[Z]

She's right about him being insecure but she definitely can't take it when others give out to her, as has been evident by the number of times she's burst into tears as a response in an argument

[MarcusMel]

Originally Posted by Zee

She's right about him being insecure but she definitely can't take it when others give out to her, as has been evident by the number of times she's burst into tears as a response in an argument

I can only remember the one time she sort comfort by resorting to tears, and that was when Lionel and Jim joined forces by saying they took her jokes seriously.

I have experienced similar situation so believe I understand it.

[Z]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

I can only remember the one time she sort comfort by resorting to tears, and that was when Lionel and Jim joined forces by saying they took her jokes seriously.

I have experienced similar situation so believe I understand it.

Her argument with Dappy earlier on in the same day... Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why she was crying, but it's the way she claims she's this hard ass who says it how it is and can take what she gives out when she absolutely can't. She tells it how it is but she cannot bear it when other people point out her flaws and tell her how it is.

[MarcusMel]

Originally Posted by Zee

Her argument with Dappy earlier on in the same day... Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why she was crying, but it's the way she claims she's this hard ass who says it how it is and can take what she gives out when she absolutely can't. She tells it how it is but she cannot bear it when other people point out her flaws and tell her how it is.

Ah! You mean when Dappy kept chasing Luisa around the house, spying on her in the diary room, and bringing in indefensible emotional worries that a mother might have for their children. Difficult to know which of them brought in the extra emotive pain to the discussion of how men and women should behave.

Such behaviour is not something people meet outside of school years. I think people are using those time times she has cried to justify their belief she cant take it, because it satisfies what they want to believe rather than see those events as exceptional circumstance.

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by Zee

Her argument with Dappy earlier on in the same day... Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why she was crying, but it's the way she claims she's this hard ass who says it how it is and can take what she gives out when she absolutely can't. She tells it how it is but she cannot bear it when other people point out her flaws and tell her how it is.

I think they were tears of frustration because it was like arguing with a lobotomised ape.

They made up pretty quick and she didn't nom him so she sorta can take it.

[Z]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

Ah! You mean when Dappy kept chasing Luisa around the house, spying on her in the diary room, and bringing in indefensible emotional worries that a mother might have for their children. Difficult to know which of them brought in the extra emotive pain to the discussion of how men and women should behave.

Such behaviour is not something people meet outside of school years. I think people are using those time times she has cried to justify their belief she cant take it, because it satisfies what they want to believe rather than see those events as exceptional circumstance.

Originally Posted by MrWong

I think they were tears of frustration because it was like arguing with a lobotomised ape.

They made up pretty quick and she didn't nom him so she sorta can take it.

I'm not disagreeing with either of you, I just think she's full of **** when she says she can take what she gives out when she's been mouthy, bitchy and stirring the pot throughout her time in the house yet her first response to any kind of criticism is to burst into tears - i.e. she can't take the slightest bit of criticism. With the Dappy situation she could have easily defused it at any time but she escalated it by throwing insults at him which of course gave him more ammunition and made him follow her round the house. With Lionel and Jim she burst into tears and gave a non-apology apology to Lionel. I appreciate what she brings to the house and I think she's entertaining but she's definitely not the hard ass she makes herself out to be.

[Brother Leon]

The irony of her saying he can dish it, but can't take it. Says the woman that was in tears wanting to leave whenever someone bites back at her

[duclos]

I hate Jim and do not understand why people like him so much. He's a narcissistic misognistic male chauvinist. He's horrible.