[arista]

Originally Posted by Josy

This part here proves straight out that this boy knew exactly what he was doing and that it was unacceptable to be doing it.

Yes the Boy
is wrong

[Jords]

Absolutely shocking :/

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by HD

What a ****.

God knows what I'm capable of after playing with my Wii

[lostalex]

[HD]

[Z]

As others have said, this isn't Microsoft's problem or fault; the fault lies with the parents for not monitoring what their kids are doing closely enough. Why was he able to watch porn on his Xbox uninterrupted and how did he manage to rape his little sister uninterrupted? I'm calling negligence on this one: 1) why are there no parental controls on the Xbox and 2) why was he alone long enough with his sister to carry out something like and nobody noticed a thing? Were the parents even in the house/flat?

[Firewire]

the tags

[Kizzy]

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't like that they're trying to make a scapegoat out of the Xbox or porn. This boy is disturbed in the head nothing more, nothing less.

This.

The old "horror films make serial killers" crap. People need to stop blaming their issues on everyone else.

Maybe they should start by looking at how he's been raised by his parents.

Yes, maybe some kind of excessive exposure to porn has fed his problems and increased his condition but overall the parents should be monitoring a child that young. If he's had such prolonged exposure to such strong material that it's affected any issues he has then there's a gap in the parenting.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Josy

This part here proves straight out that this boy knew exactly what he was doing and that it was unacceptable to be doing it.

Exactly. That shows he wasn't an innocent child corrupted by pornography, but someone who knew exactly what he was doing was wrong.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

This.

The old "horror films make serial killers" crap. People need to stop blaming their issues on everyone else.

Maybe they should start by looking at how he's been raised by his parents.

Yes, maybe some kind of excessive exposure to porn has fed his problems and increased his condition but overall the parents should be monitoring a child that young. If he's had such prolonged exposure to such strong material that it's affected any issues he has then there's a gap in the parenting.

It's not that old, they've actually just realised there's more than a grain of truth in it for psychopaths so it stands to reason that sexual deviance follows a similar vein, well that's my view.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Exactly. That shows he wasn't an innocent child corrupted by pornography, but someone who knew exactly what he was doing was wrong.

He attacked on his impulses brought to the fore by pornography, how does that negate it's influence on his actions?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's not that old, they've actually just realised there's more than a grain of truth in it for psychopaths so it stands to reason that sexual deviance follows a similar vein, well that's my view.

Oh I agree. Just the element of such material making a psycho/rapist/murderer out of a perfectly sane human being is rubbish.

Things like this rarely get looked at beyond the game/show/movie, which is too often used as the blame and scapegoat. The issues go deeper than him accessing some porn on his xbox. Especially as, in this case, the child knew very well his actions were wrong.

I can see the stance of the pornography escalating matters so it's not entirely out of the equation, but it seems to be too often labelled as the main problem to be solved when it goes further than that. People with issues and predispositions will find material one way or another in a lot of cases.

He didn't really act on an urge out of the blue, he deliberately chose his sister as she couldn't talk about it, he thought about it.

The issue of porn being too easily accessed by anyone is a valid one and a problem that needs solving but in cases like this it only scratches the surface IMO.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He attacked on his impulses brought to the fore by pornography, how does that negate it's influence on his actions?

It wasn't really impulse though, he thought about enough before hand to come to this conclusion

The boy said he targeted his younger sister because she was small and 'couldn't remember stuff'.

He's blaming the xbox/porn for an easy way out.

[Tom4784]

When it comes to psychopaths and other predatory types anything can serve as the trigger to their behaviour, it's foolish to blame the trigger since it diverts attention away from the actual issue at hand. It alleviates blame from the Psycho/Rapist/etc in question.

[Kizzy]

I don't think it's a chicken or egg scenario thing though, I don't think that if there was no access to porn there would have potentially have been no crime as he had no trigger, therefore he wouldn't have to seek out a victim.
The whole issue is he attacked after he was exposed to porn, but then again we don't know what type of lad he was prior to that so

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

Yes X-Box Online was the problem

X-Box need to make it not online (for the sake of the younger kids)
unless you enter a code.
Or something like that

I reckon at least 95% of of 13yr old males have seen pornogaphy, but 95% of 13yr olds aren't rapists, so there is obviously something else going on here.

We already have data about other 13yr olds not raping, so it's completely illogical to attempt to use pornography as a scapegoat.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

Porn was the trigger, sure, but that doesn't deal with the actual issue. It's like if a cyclist cuts across in front of a car; most people would be annoyed at that but it takes someone with real anger problems to get out of their car and beat up the cyclist. Saying it's because the cyclist cut across their path is all good and well for explaining why the situation arose, but it doesn't account for the fact the person committing the crime was already disturbed. It's the same logic with this case IMO; while the boy committed it because he'd seen porn, he did it to his sister because he profiled her as an easy target which suggests intent to rape that did not come from pornography; he'd already sussed her out as a potential victim for something untoward.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I reckon at least 95% of of 13yr old males have seen pornogaphy, but 95% of 13yr olds aren't rapists, so there is obviously something else going on here.

We already have data about other 13yr olds not raping, so it's completely illogical to attempt to use pornography as a scapegoat.

Exactly, the vast majority of 13 year old boys have watched porn of some description. The vast majority of those boys (and we're talking something like 99.9999%) DON'T end up raping their sister.

It was not "caused" by porn (and certainly not the fact that the porn was on an Xbox, seems purely incidental?), watching porn may have put the idea in his head that specific day but the compulsion - actually thinking "yeah that sounds appealing" and going through with it, the lack of empathy - were clearly pre-existing parts of this boy's character either through mental disorder or something major that's happened in his past like abuse. No two ways about it. Normal teenagers dont rape their kid sister no matter how much porn they've watched. He is disturbed and would inevitably have ended up hurting someone, someday.

Also, calls for parents to be watching and controlling what their 13 year olds are up to 24/7? Nooo! It's an awful idea. Keeping short reins on a teenager and having hawk eyes on them at all times is more likely to CREATE an emotionally disturbed adult in future than prevent one. Teenagers need space and independence and privacy - it's psychologically essential. The more people realise this, the fewer emotionally and socially retarded adults we'll end up with.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly, the vast majority of 13 year old boys have watched porn of some description. The vast majority of those boys (and we're talking something like 99.9999%) DON'T end up raping their sister.

It was not "caused" by porn (and certainly not the fact that the porn was on an Xbox, seems purely incidental?), watching porn may have put the idea in his head that specific day but the compulsion - actually thinking "yeah that sounds appealing" and going through with it, the lack of empathy - were clearly pre-existing parts of this boy's character either through mental disorder or something major that's happened in his past like abuse. No two ways about it. Normal teenagers don't rape their kid sister no matter how much porn they've watched. He is disturbed and would inevitably have ended up hurting someone, someday.

Also, calls for parents to be watching and controlling what their 13 year olds are up to 24/7? Nooo! It's an awful idea. Keeping short reins on a teenager and having hawk eyes on them at all times is more likely to CREATE an emotionally disturbed adult in future than prevent one. Teenagers need space and independence and privacy - it's psychologically essential. The more people realise this, the fewer emotionally and socially retarded adults we'll end up with.

I agree with the bit in bold as well. Trust within families is key. All my siblings were trusted to baby sit for me growing up, at one time or another. I can't imagine my parents not risking going out in case I got raped by my brother - it's just not in the day to day thought process of families.

It's a completely tragic event, but one that was basically unstoppable, and one where there is only one person to blame.

[DDRickyDD]

Has the Daily Mail started a campaign to ban Xbox's yet?

[King Gizzard]

It's very simple to put parental locks with passwords on computers/consoles. They will scapegoat internet/pornography under this ''protecting kids'' bull**** though, just so that they can watch all that we do on the internet

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's very simple to put parental locks with passwords on computers/consoles. They will scapegoat internet/pornography under this ''protecting kids'' bull**** though, just so that they can watch all that we do on the internet

The parents did not know the security
for Xbox online.


Microsoft said sorry

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

The parents did not know the security
for Xbox online.

You mean they weren't arsed about it. It's not rocket science... it's no ones responsibility but theirs to know what the capabilities of the console are (the fact that it goes online is clear even from basic sales pages) and, if they deem necessary, to go onto the console and figure out the parental controls. Again, not rocket science, if they had bothered to look, they would have been able to figure out how to do it. They didn't bother. I'm not saying they SHOULD have, they probably (and rightly) thought it couldnt do any harm.

which it didn't.

Their son attacked their daughter because he has serious psychological issues. Not because he saw two girls one cup on his games console.

I fully understand their wanting to find someone other than their son to blame for what happened - just as I understand mums wanting to blame their thug sons stabbing each other on "Grand Theft Auto" - but the reality they have to face is that their children are violent criminals without any help or any trigger, and would have hurt someone regardless. They'd be better able to help them if they accepted that. Making scapegoats and excuses will only result in the real issues being avoided.