[Glenn.]

I can't actually believe Xbox is being blamed for the acts that this little freak committed.

[Jords]

Absolutely shocking :/

[lostalex]

[HD]

[Z]

As others have said, this isn't Microsoft's problem or fault; the fault lies with the parents for not monitoring what their kids are doing closely enough. Why was he able to watch porn on his Xbox uninterrupted and how did he manage to rape his little sister uninterrupted? I'm calling negligence on this one: 1) why are there no parental controls on the Xbox and 2) why was he alone long enough with his sister to carry out something like and nobody noticed a thing? Were the parents even in the house/flat?

[Firewire]

the tags

[Kizzy]

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

Yes X-Box Online was the problem

X-Box need to make it not online (for the sake of the younger kids)
unless you enter a code.
Or something like that

I reckon at least 95% of of 13yr old males have seen pornogaphy, but 95% of 13yr olds aren't rapists, so there is obviously something else going on here.

We already have data about other 13yr olds not raping, so it's completely illogical to attempt to use pornography as a scapegoat.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I reckon at least 95% of of 13yr old males have seen pornogaphy, but 95% of 13yr olds aren't rapists, so there is obviously something else going on here.

We already have data about other 13yr olds not raping, so it's completely illogical to attempt to use pornography as a scapegoat.

Exactly, the vast majority of 13 year old boys have watched porn of some description. The vast majority of those boys (and we're talking something like 99.9999%) DON'T end up raping their sister.

It was not "caused" by porn (and certainly not the fact that the porn was on an Xbox, seems purely incidental?), watching porn may have put the idea in his head that specific day but the compulsion - actually thinking "yeah that sounds appealing" and going through with it, the lack of empathy - were clearly pre-existing parts of this boy's character either through mental disorder or something major that's happened in his past like abuse. No two ways about it. Normal teenagers dont rape their kid sister no matter how much porn they've watched. He is disturbed and would inevitably have ended up hurting someone, someday.

Also, calls for parents to be watching and controlling what their 13 year olds are up to 24/7? Nooo! It's an awful idea. Keeping short reins on a teenager and having hawk eyes on them at all times is more likely to CREATE an emotionally disturbed adult in future than prevent one. Teenagers need space and independence and privacy - it's psychologically essential. The more people realise this, the fewer emotionally and socially retarded adults we'll end up with.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly, the vast majority of 13 year old boys have watched porn of some description. The vast majority of those boys (and we're talking something like 99.9999%) DON'T end up raping their sister.

It was not "caused" by porn (and certainly not the fact that the porn was on an Xbox, seems purely incidental?), watching porn may have put the idea in his head that specific day but the compulsion - actually thinking "yeah that sounds appealing" and going through with it, the lack of empathy - were clearly pre-existing parts of this boy's character either through mental disorder or something major that's happened in his past like abuse. No two ways about it. Normal teenagers don't rape their kid sister no matter how much porn they've watched. He is disturbed and would inevitably have ended up hurting someone, someday.

Also, calls for parents to be watching and controlling what their 13 year olds are up to 24/7? Nooo! It's an awful idea. Keeping short reins on a teenager and having hawk eyes on them at all times is more likely to CREATE an emotionally disturbed adult in future than prevent one. Teenagers need space and independence and privacy - it's psychologically essential. The more people realise this, the fewer emotionally and socially retarded adults we'll end up with.

I agree with the bit in bold as well. Trust within families is key. All my siblings were trusted to baby sit for me growing up, at one time or another. I can't imagine my parents not risking going out in case I got raped by my brother - it's just not in the day to day thought process of families.

It's a completely tragic event, but one that was basically unstoppable, and one where there is only one person to blame.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok... I'm taking a risk of incurring the wrath of tibb here but I do think on some psychological level there's a connection.
In many cases of psychopathy there has shown that violent films/games preempt offending, does it not follow that in those with a predetermined predisposition for sexual violence porn would be the trigger?
Do I think that porn creates rapists?..... If the evidence provided shows that there has to be a significant event that causes a change to enable someone to become capable of such acts then yes I would say it does.
No, he shouldn't have been allowed access to porn.

Porn was the trigger, sure, but that doesn't deal with the actual issue. It's like if a cyclist cuts across in front of a car; most people would be annoyed at that but it takes someone with real anger problems to get out of their car and beat up the cyclist. Saying it's because the cyclist cut across their path is all good and well for explaining why the situation arose, but it doesn't account for the fact the person committing the crime was already disturbed. It's the same logic with this case IMO; while the boy committed it because he'd seen porn, he did it to his sister because he profiled her as an easy target which suggests intent to rape that did not come from pornography; he'd already sussed her out as a potential victim for something untoward.

[Tom4784]

When it comes to psychopaths and other predatory types anything can serve as the trigger to their behaviour, it's foolish to blame the trigger since it diverts attention away from the actual issue at hand. It alleviates blame from the Psycho/Rapist/etc in question.

[Kizzy]

I don't think it's a chicken or egg scenario thing though, I don't think that if there was no access to porn there would have potentially have been no crime as he had no trigger, therefore he wouldn't have to seek out a victim.
The whole issue is he attacked after he was exposed to porn, but then again we don't know what type of lad he was prior to that so

[DDRickyDD]

Has the Daily Mail started a campaign to ban Xbox's yet?

[King Gizzard]

It's very simple to put parental locks with passwords on computers/consoles. They will scapegoat internet/pornography under this ''protecting kids'' bull**** though, just so that they can watch all that we do on the internet

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's very simple to put parental locks with passwords on computers/consoles. They will scapegoat internet/pornography under this ''protecting kids'' bull**** though, just so that they can watch all that we do on the internet

The parents did not know the security
for Xbox online.


Microsoft said sorry

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

The parents did not know the security
for Xbox online.

You mean they weren't arsed about it. It's not rocket science... it's no ones responsibility but theirs to know what the capabilities of the console are (the fact that it goes online is clear even from basic sales pages) and, if they deem necessary, to go onto the console and figure out the parental controls. Again, not rocket science, if they had bothered to look, they would have been able to figure out how to do it. They didn't bother. I'm not saying they SHOULD have, they probably (and rightly) thought it couldnt do any harm.

which it didn't.

Their son attacked their daughter because he has serious psychological issues. Not because he saw two girls one cup on his games console.

I fully understand their wanting to find someone other than their son to blame for what happened - just as I understand mums wanting to blame their thug sons stabbing each other on "Grand Theft Auto" - but the reality they have to face is that their children are violent criminals without any help or any trigger, and would have hurt someone regardless. They'd be better able to help them if they accepted that. Making scapegoats and excuses will only result in the real issues being avoided.

[Ammi]

..I’ve given this a lot of thought before properly commenting because of my own personal experiences with my job..I do agree that the Xbox/porn isn’t what’s responsible here but an obvious lack of parental involvement with children so young and vulnerable...but as much as it’s dismissive to any underlying problems/issue which there obviously are within the family to blame porn...it’s also in my opinion, equally dismissive and judgemental to blame the parents in that I don’t think that the sister is the only victim here...I don’t believe that generally, people are ‘born bad/a bad seed’ or whatever..I think that mostly they are victims of their environment and I think that it’s quite likely that his whole environment has been a contributory factor and that his life has not been given the balance of a caring and nurturing parent and influence, which most of us have or have had...and maybe because of that, in a way porn and the internet and any other influences that may be negative, both inside the family home and outside of it will have a bearing...I think though, that it’s also quite possible that his parents struggle as well and maybe they themselves are victims of their environment and their own upbringing, and so it goes on and creates a whole family in need of help, which unfortunately is not always detected until something truly dreadful and damaging like this happens...


..it kind of shows that thing about how much responsibility we have to our children.. to their physical and emotional health and also how much can be transferred to them if we forget that or are unable/incapable of actively bringing a positive balance to their lives and also taking time to spend with them and being interested in everything they do...and also shows that many people indeed can have children but not all of them are ‘parents’...yes, I do think that a parental control could have been used, that’s fairly widely known but I think there are issues within the family that meant that it wasn’t used..maybe because that would have meant giving time to the children/paying attention..?...who knows...but I also think that there is a good possibility that the whole family are victims in this case, as unfortunately and sadly it is with many cases..and quite possibly they are all ‘victims’ and obviously none more than the sister ...the whole family is in need of help, I think and I hope they get it and I hope that the parents are open to realising how much they need it and accept the damage that their lack of parenting has caused...I don’t think with adults, it’s much different than with children in that there is no point in screaming at them and saying ‘you’ve been bad/how stupid have you been..’ and judging them because that will achieve nothing...they need help and understanding of the consequences of their parenting and help in finding a way forward for all of them...also because the little girl is still in their care....


..obviously I don't know for sure but I don't think this boy is 'bad' but just hasn't had in his life what a 13yr old boy should have had and unfortunately it's not what all parents are able to give or have their own capabilities of giving...

[Kizzy]

I didn't notice it had happened before...

'In November last year a 12-year-old boy admitted three charges of rape against his sister, aged under 10, after he watched pornography at school and went home to copy what he had seen.

The abuse took place over the course of a year and was only discovered after the girl confided in a family member.

The boy was given a three-year youth rehabilitation order and will continue to live at the family home.

He was ordered to register as a sex offender for two-and-a-half years.'

As stated in the article this is not an isolated incident, the 'opt- in' changes to porn and the restrictions on accounts registered to children on xbox will go some was to addressing the problem.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I didn't notice it had happened before...

'In November last year a 12-year-old boy admitted three charges of rape against his sister, aged under 10, after he watched pornography at school and went home to copy what he had seen.

The abuse took place over the course of a year and was only discovered after the girl confided in a family member.

The boy was given a three-year youth rehabilitation order and will continue to live at the family home.

He was ordered to register as a sex offender for two-and-a-half years.'

As stated in the article this is not an isolated incident, the 'opt- in' changes to porn and the restrictions on accounts registered to children on xbox will go some was to addressing the problem.

I genuinely dont think it will address the problem at all. Delay it? Maybe. But these are disturbed individuals without empathy and, when they are no longer children, they will STILL be disturbed individuals without empathy. I'm afraid they were always going to end up hurting someone, somewhere, at some point.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I genuinely dont think it will address the problem at all. Delay it? Maybe. But these are disturbed individuals without empathy and, when they are no longer children, they will STILL be disturbed individuals without empathy. I'm afraid they were always going to end up hurting someone, somewhere, at some point.

I'm sorry you've lost me a bit somewhere, I'm suggesting this kind of material that creates the conditions that cause the change in these individuals... that the dormant neuro pathways are fired into life by experiencing this content, and if unexposed would not develop into any pathological desires.
Sure there's nothing to say that there wouldn't be a trigger in the future but the issue is with minors being exposed which is causing the problems earlier, which is kind of the whole point of the argument for the xbox restrictions.

[Gstar]

ew